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On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

blogs.unimelb.edu.au

41–50 of 56 posts

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#41
post #31

I'll say something regarding string theory which has been accused of leading physicists astray because of its "mathematical beauty". First of all, string theory in its present form is NOT mathematically beautiful. The mathematical theories used in string theory are in fact beautiful but the way they are stitched together is an UGLY Frankenstein mess. It's essentially the same ugly math that particle physics was built…

> the Penrose singularity theorems in General relativity were impossible until Einstein's theory was formulated correctly with rigorous mathematics

I wonder if you would please justify that statement, specifically and only with respect to one of the things called the [Hawking-]Penrose singularity theorem? In particular, what was sufficiently unrigorous or alternatively missing from classical General Relativity that blocked a reasonable choice -- especially the early 1960s ones (example and commentary below) -- of such a theorem?

[Penrose 1965] Gravitational Collapse and Space-Time Singularities https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.14.57 (2.5 pages)

(You can also find a copy in the usual place)

(I submit the reason it took until 1964 for a Penrose singularity theorem is explained by the first two lines of [Penrose 1965]: the surprising discovery that QSO 3C 273's highly extragalactic redshift z ~ 0.16 having been published in 1963 and QSO 3C 147's z ~ 0.55 following in 1964 strongly suggested SMBH activity. In other words the underlined statement in the fourth paragraph did not follow any sort of mathematical development (ADM, for instance) but rather was motivated by one of the most provocative observations of nature I can think of off the top of my head, up there with the (also 1964) discovery of the CMB.)

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#42
post #26

Does anyone know example of math that is not beautiful? As far as i can tell everything that explains something more complex in terms of simpler rules is called beautiful, but that is all the math! So it's not very surprising that math in physics is beautiful too.

The Heegner numbers are a good gateway into a brutally ugly and weird corner of analysis, with lots of almost-numbers and almost-facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heegner_number

In higher (n-)category theory, there is not a single canonical way to describe higher categories, leading to lots of careful use of "strict" and "weak" qualifiers, as well as many different non-equivalent flavors of higher category: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/semi-strict+infinity-category

Speaking of categories, the number of finite categories, or other finite abstract algebraic objects, is not a beautiful combinatoric theorem, but instead a nasty study of computer-aided searches: https://www.mta.ca/uploadedFiles/Community/Bios/Geoff_Cruttw...

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#43
post #29
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd that people think that equation is beautiful. Rewriting it in polish notation/lisp you end up with: (= (+ (exp (* i pi)) 1) 0) Which is neither beautiful nor very enlightening.

There is more to a beautiful equation than the shape of the symbols used to describe it. The beauty of Euler's identity is the relationship between 5 fundamental constants (0, 1, e, i, pi). It's simple, elegant and far reaching. The relationship is the same regardless of the notation.

Mostly serious comment: I'm not sure why the form e^{i\pi}=-1 isn't better. Only it doesn't have 0, but is it worse, less beautiful? (It doesn't seem to have the same "relationship between 5 fundamental constants", although it adds the negative number realm, to the imaginary and transcendental–neat.) Would E-mc^2=0 be similarly be better than E=mc^2, because it has an additional "fundamental constant"?

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#44
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more to a beautiful equation than the shape of the symbols used to describe it. The beauty of Euler's identity is the relationship between 5 fundamental constants (0, 1, e, i, pi). It's simple, elegant and far reaching. The relationship is the same regardless of the notation.

Mostly serious comment: I'm not sure why the form e^{i\pi}=-1 isn't better. Only it doesn't have 0, but is it worse, less beautiful? (It doesn't seem to have the same "relationship between 5 fundamental constants", although it adds the negative number realm, to the imaginary and transcendental–neat.) Would E-mc^2=0 be similarly be better than E=mc^2, because it has an additional "fundamental constant"?

People fetishize the formula but the beautiful idea is that multiplication/exponentiation can be expanded in such a way that it describes oscillatory relations. This is how eg. eigenvalues get to play a role in models of harmonic resonance. Or how AC impedance naturally generalizes DC resistance.

Try to imagine complex interest rates. Now try to make them matrix-valued. It works. It all works.

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#47
Just a note on the author's comment under Goya's painting. She advances that "unlike painting", in physics beauty can only be appreciated by those who understand their meaning. I disagree there's a difference in these disciplines, case in point, I knew Goya's painting long before becoming interested in grecoroman mythology, and I plainly didn't like it. Today I can appreciate the brutal tone of the painting knowing the story behind, and that has turned my view of the opus.

Another shocking example is El Expolio by El Greco, shocking technique but doubtful setting... until the author's intention is explained (or understood without further word), at that point it just becomes beautiful.

And in the same way that it's not necessary to know the story behind in art (you could like a painting for technique, looks alone), a layperson could like a mathematical formula for purely aesthetic reasons.

So all in all, I don't think mathematics and physics stand out in this regard.

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#48
post #9

I found the book "Our Mathematical Universe" by Max Tegmark, a physicist, a pretty good read. His idea is basically that the universe isn't explained by math, it IS math. To get to what he means by that he provides a good review of theoretical physics/cosmology/quantum mechanics. No idea how other physicists think of his work but for someone not in the field who has some interest I thought it was a good overview and…

Keeping in mind that Tegmark's idea is 2,500 years old and the basis of Western civilization. Pythagoras was the biggest philosophical influence on Plato. And, according to Aristotle (150 years later), Pythagoras believed that "all is number". Thales (the "first" Greek philosopher) believed that the underlying principle of the world was water, a kind of flowing force. Anaximenes, his student, believed the underlying…

Pythagoras had some insider knowledge, while Thales et al just speculated.

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#49
post #11

I wonder if anyone would find Einstein's field equation aesthetically pleasing.

To me, General Relativity has some pleasing qualities: it's mathematically complete, and it's very flexible.

As to the Einstein Field Equations (EFEs) themselves, the aesthetically pleasing quality is the terse notation brought about by the Einstein summation convention, abstraction into the Einstein tensor G_{\mu\nu}, the stress-energy-momentum tensor T_{\mu\nu} and other objects, and so forth (it's even shorter with geometrized units c = G = 1, ignoring the cosmological constant (say if one relies on thin shells and junctions[1]), \pi = 1, and/or 0 on the RHS).

This terseness can hide several pages of partial derivatives that look like http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0e2Zl5QrRiA/UZfL29xVTZI/AAAAAAAAAF... (from NCSA's (offline) numerical relativity mathmine1.html originally) -- there will be sixteen of those for the Ricci tensor, plus some more pages for the other parts of the left-hand-side, although by introducing lots of symmetries and simplifications we can cut down by quite a bit.

One can get a feel for how these are generated with the example at https://www.maplesoft.com/support/help/Maple/view.aspx?path=... (eqn 12 for the metric at eqn 6)

Hartle's (anathe)Mathematica examples https://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~gravitybook/math/curvature.pdf are nice but don't take you to an interesting Ricci tensor.

Instead, perhaps see the answer https://mathematica.stackexchange.com/a/8908

Frankly, the mechanics of working with known solutions of the EFEs can be a pain. Perturbing against those can be even more of a pain. Junction conditions[1] between different exact solutions can be a super pain. Modern symbolic computing systems help a lot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_software (sigh, that needs updating, e.g. GRTensorII->GRTensorIII https://github.com/grtensor/grtensor/wiki )

- --

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9510052v3 since absorbed into GRTensorIII

Re: On Mathematical Beauty in Physics

#50
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't confuse the terrain with the map. The formal systems which underly mathematics describing the universe are incomplete (containing true but unprovable statements), but that is not a statement about the universe.

I'm not sure I see the point. Or rather, I see The tautology. We discover something math can't explain. By definition, you can't expand math to explain it. You can try, and if you succeed you were wrong all along, in that your discovery could have been explained by math you just couldn't prove it at the time.

That's not what Godel showed.
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