> Without wishing to return to the Elizabethan Poor Laws, we ought to consider what was lost when the courts discouraged Americans from thinking of “homelessness” in light of the old laws against vagrancy. Ah, so we're back to imprisoning the homeless (at huge expense) rather than providing, say, public toilets or shelter facilities. Not only is the WSJ not learning from history, they don't want to learn from history…
>Ah, so we're back to imprisoning the homeless (at huge expense) rather than providing, say, public toilets or shelter facilities. It's weird to frame it as a "rather" when in fact you need both. You need to have public bathrooms and come down hard on shitting on the street.
California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
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Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#42Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#43Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#44Could it be dogs or could it be people? What economic factors could lead people to stop picking up dog poop? Have poop bags gone so far up in price that it's impossible for the average person to purchase poop bags?
It's people.
Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a caricature. In fact there are a near infinite variety of reasons for being homeless, and many homeless folks not only can hold jobs, but work them already. Yet they're on the streets anyway because of financial pressure, look like the "these people" you want to lock up, and would probably get picked up under the same ordinance.
Shitting on the street and being homeless are two issues here.
You can't treat them as two issues while insisting on a remedy that doesn't.
Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#46> Under that understanding, no one had a right to camp out indefinitely on public property, much less to defecate on it. Public property belonged to the public—to everyone—and couldn’t be privatized for the benefit of one or more vagrants, however poor or sick. Though that principle would need to be applied to modern circumstances, it is the indispensable starting point for thinking about the shocking problems of the…
Defecating is a public health issue, too.
Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mental healthcare may be relevant to this issue. But the cost of housing is not. These people cannot hold jobs because they are mentally ill. They need state provided institutional care, otherwise they will remain on the streets.
That's a caricature. In fact there are a near infinite variety of reasons for being homeless, and many homeless folks not only can hold jobs, but work them already. Yet they're on the streets anyway because of financial pressure, look like the "these people" you want to lock up, and would probably get picked up under the same ordinance.
Near infinite in the sense that there are near infinite ways of dying. You could be hit by an asteroid. You could fall off a cliff. But that obscures the fact that most people die from some sickness or disease.
I've done volunteer work with the homeless. There are 2 major causes of homelessness: mental illness and drug addiction. Everything else is insignificant in comparison.
Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#48> Under that understanding, no one had a right to camp out indefinitely on public property, much less to defecate on it. Public property belonged to the public—to everyone—and couldn’t be privatized for the benefit of one or more vagrants, however poor or sick. Though that principle would need to be applied to modern circumstances, it is the indispensable starting point for thinking about the shocking problems of the…
Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#49> Under that understanding, no one had a right to camp out indefinitely on public property, much less to defecate on it. Public property belonged to the public—to everyone—and couldn’t be privatized for the benefit of one or more vagrants, however poor or sick. Though that principle would need to be applied to modern circumstances, it is the indispensable starting point for thinking about the shocking problems of the…
Using != abusing. Camping in a public space means taking part of it for yourself, permanently. In other words, you're taking away the right of the rest of citizens of using that part of public space. Defecating is a public health issue, too.
Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’
#50Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house th…