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I feel like im talking to the borg

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Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#371

Post by ramphastidae »

koheripbal wrote: post #256
Barrin92 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you're either with them or against them. well if you're dealing with a corporate entity the size of amazon and their weird bot/shill twitter army that's pretty much the only sane response. Do you seriously think if you chat nicely with these PR people they're going to hook you up with someone who matters and amazon is going to have a nice chat about their anti-union practises with you over a cup of tea? Makes about…

Putting aside that you've given up entirely on any form of discourse with the account you're responding to... You aren't only talking to that account - you are having a public conversation in front of millions of people. ...and if the discussion goes something like: Company A: "We believe in xyz." Twitter B: "You are an ." ...then what benefit have you delivered to the other millions of people reading? All you are do…

> a logical, well reasoned, and UN-emotional argument is persuasive, and far more likely to help you achieve your goal.

This is shockingly naive. Look at the world around you. Read history.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#372

Post by taneq »

Barrin92 wrote: post #148
duxup wrote: post #125

I feel like this is twitter in a nutshell, and that goes for everyone involved. The very first response is "eally like? cause your workers are liars?" There we go, now the entire conversation is everything or nothing, you're either with them or against them. Then it's off into personal attacks and arguments about followers and etc. Nobody is talking to each other in any of that. They're just posting for everyone else…

>you're either with them or against them. well if you're dealing with a corporate entity the size of amazon and their weird bot/shill twitter army that's pretty much the only sane response. Do you seriously think if you chat nicely with these PR people they're going to hook you up with someone who matters and amazon is going to have a nice chat about their anti-union practises with you over a cup of tea? Makes about…

> well if you're dealing with a corporate entity the size of amazon and their weird bot/shill twitter army that's pretty much the only sane response.

I don't see anything bot-like about the responses, I mean check this one out:

> Actually, we aren’t robots! We just love the Amazon website.

That's a perfectly normal human thing to say to another human who also likes human things such as carbohydrates and oxygen.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#373

Post by wildrhythms »

imgabe wrote: post #196

What's the endgame here? What is this person hoping to accomplish by harassing the Twitter-jockeys at Amazon? Is Amazon supposed to say "Oh, someone was snarky to our employees on Twitter, now all warehouse employees make six figures and only work 20 minutes a day"? Instead of wasting time by publicly mocking someone who either A. is actually having a good experience working at Amazon B. isn't but doesn't want to los…

>What's the endgame here?

To expose questionable corporate PR tactics.

Surely if Amazon actually cared about improving their public image they would fix the issues that are causing them problems instead of spending time and money employing people to rain praises for pay on social media, right?

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#374

Post by wildrhythms »

settsu wrote: post #359

What I find most unfortunate in these situations is the number of people with a response to the effect of: > "I worked at [physically-demanding job] for $n/hr [where n≤other person's/current minimum wage] and I didn't [complain/think it was that bad/die], so what is the problem?" The problem with this is: 1) In the absence of any addl. context, it's a poor means of objectively determining employee well-being. All els…

>"I worked at [physically-demanding job] for $n/hr [where n≤other person's/current minimum wage] and I didn't [complain/think it was that bad/die], so what is the problem?"

I call these types of comments "disciplinary blinders" (we've always done it this way...) but there's probably a better name for them. They might as well be prefixed with "back in my day..."

That's aside from the fact that those comments are redirecting the conversation away from the main point, which is Amazon's questionable PR tactics.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#375

Post by sidibe »

spapas82 wrote: post #321

Are these account really related to Amazon? How could anybody confirm this? Can't all these answering accounts be a part of a parody that wants to ridiculise Amazon? I am asking honestly because the other possibility seems too absurd to believe.

Yeah this seems like the obvious thing here. It's disturbing that the conversation here is not about that because the lack of doubts people have shows this an easy way to sabotage any organization

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#376

Post by pm90 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #341
dorgo wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To them, a logical, well reasoned, and UN-emotional argument is persuasive, and far more likely to help you achieve your goal. I'm not so sure. Know your audience. On hackernews I agree. But there are forums where nobody reads or understands your well reasoned arguments..

So why use those forums? If all you can do on twitter or reddit and whatnot is engage in pointless flamewars, why post there at all, or read them? What does anyone gain by spending time exchanging "biting sarcasm" (as per a sibling comment) on an online platform? Are there issues that we need to resolve with debate? If so, will those issues be resolved by slagging off each other on the internets? If not, is it any po…

Because those forums reach a wider audience? Because not every forum espouses or encourages well researched and reasoned arguments?

I like both twitter and hacker news, for expressing myself in different ways. Each have their place. One place isn't better than the other. Humans are diverse and so are their needs.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#377

Post by alexanderdmitri »

taneq wrote: post #372
Barrin92 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you're either with them or against them. well if you're dealing with a corporate entity the size of amazon and their weird bot/shill twitter army that's pretty much the only sane response. Do you seriously think if you chat nicely with these PR people they're going to hook you up with someone who matters and amazon is going to have a nice chat about their anti-union practises with you over a cup of tea? Makes about…

> well if you're dealing with a corporate entity the size of amazon and their weird bot/shill twitter army that's pretty much the only sane response. I don't see anything bot-like about the responses, I mean check this one out: > Actually, we aren’t robots! We just love the Amazon website. That's a perfectly normal human thing to say to another human who also likes human things such as carbohydrates and oxygen.

"I'm not a robot, I like carbohydrates, oxygen and Amazon just like you," strikes me as at least suspicious ...

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#378

Post by C1sc0cat »

username90 wrote: post #276
Frondo wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's not how unions are structured by law in the US. Every union is shop-based and organized against a specific employer. They usually throw in with a larger union or an association, but not always. This is where the "Local 404" comes from -- the union itself is the local ###, aligned with the national federation. The union at Powell's Books, for example, is a retail union but they're connected to the ILWU, th…

> The cynic in me thinks, if unions were such a bad thing, why wouldn't the owners let them form, burn the employees, and decertify? Because unions gets more powerful than any company and can leverage said power against both workers and employers. Lets take SAG-AFTRA as an example, a union many here at HN says the software industry should mimic. Their contracts with their workers states that the workers are not allow…

IATSE is a better model for tech SAG / Equity.

Also entertainment unions provide way more services eg training, chasing late payers for freelancers and running the "call first list" - this is the list of problem employers.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#379

Post by decoyworker »

laughinghan wrote: post #353
decoyworker wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to keep asking the same question and resort to ad hominem attacks until I get the answer that I am looking for!

"really like? cause your workers are liars?" is not an ad hominem attack, it's contradicting you by pointing to evidence. Eyewitness testimony, by your workers contradicting you, is evidence.

The title of this post is an ad hominem. It's an insult/joke that adds nothing to the discussion. Saying someone sounds like the Borg isn't an insult?

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#380

Post by Accacin »

TheBranca18 wrote: post #191
Accacin wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the conditions are so bad, why are there more complaints? I'm very distrustful of the media in general and feel like they're pushing an agenda more than anything. I know people personally that work in distribution centres and they find it a perfectly fine job. It'd hard work, yes, but you see complaints like "boiling hot in summer and freezing in winter", and it's like.. yeah.. Which loading bay isn't like that?

The media absolutely pushes an agenda, they are paid to do so. Not many would question that. The difference is, reporting on these things is their job and Amazon is treating their employees like trash. You have to be purposefully ignorant to miss this stuff. It's everywhere! Last Week Tonight broke it down pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9m7d07k22A . The fact you think your anecdotal evidence means anyt…

> The fact you think your anecdotal evidence means anything is puzzling though.

It's not evidence. This isn't a peer-reviewed paper, this is an internet chat board. I'm also troubled that although my anecdotal isn't allowed, a comedy show video is 'evidence'.

I'm also not denying that Amazon treat their employers badly. What I'm saying is why the agenda towards Amazon in particular. Many people work in awful jobs but the media just ignores these.

Worst of all, when people who work for Amazon dare to say "it's not all bad", people like you tell them that they're wrong. When I was younger I worked some pretty awful jobs, but often it's people who have never worked jobs like this that think they know best.

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