I feel like im talking to the borg • Hacker News Board

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#151

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

tehjoker wrote: post #94

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience being in a union (against my preferences) it’s not implied, but a fact. Unions have sued their own members for speaking with managers about grievances.

My guess would be that it would be because the member is trying to cut an individual deal on a group problem. This is how the capitalist class practices divide and conquer.

As always I'm divided on comments like this. The first half is entirely accurate - it's trying to keep individuals from cutting their own deal and undermining the value of the collective bargaining process. I just don't know if we should start using a framework of class conflict to go along with it.

I feel like the point could easily be made without mentioning the "capitalist class", which seems to weaken the argument. But I don't know if the particular word choice terminology has no value? Should a point be inflammatory for those who oppose it? For some people putting it like that, using the ideas of class conflict conflict has value, but it seems to further divide the conversation. Is it more important to tell it like you think it is, or to try and make a point that the most people will agree with? I don't know what the solution is.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#152

Post by duxup » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #148

duxup wrote: post #125

I feel like this is twitter in a nutshell, and that goes for everyone involved. The very first response is "eally like? cause your workers are liars?" There we go, now the entire conversation is everything or nothing, you're either with them or against them. Then it's off into personal attacks and arguments about followers and etc. Nobody is talking to each other in any of that. They're just posting for everyone else…

>you're either with them or against them. well if you're dealing with a corporate entity the size of amazon and their weird bot/shill twitter army that's pretty much the only sane response. Do you seriously think if you chat nicely with these PR people they're going to hook you up with someone who matters and amazon is going to have a nice chat about their anti-union practises with you over a cup of tea? Makes about…

> and if these combatative tweets bring attention to their PR campaigns than that's a plus

I'm not convinced that's a thing. I see a lot of twitter styled activism and I'm not sure what the impact is outside of maybe some anecdotal events.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#153

Post by scythe » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

Has she considered that the reason a different employee responds every time is that she’s being unnecessarily rude and nobody wants to talk to her, so they keep asking each other to take over? Because that’s what it looks like to me.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#154

Post by gpvos » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

pmlnr wrote: post #17

blhack wrote: post #15

Can somebody explain how to parse the page linked here? This seems like deeplinking Intl the middle of a conversation. Side note: it feels like Twitter specifically has done immeasurable damage to the discourse. Why does the communication have to be presented so confusingly? To an outsider it seems like it’s to create maximum outrage/confusion/dopamine response. That’s much scarier to me than a customer service team.

Scroll up, hit the top, start reading.

That doesn't get me to something that looks like the start of a conversation.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#155

Post by projektfu » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #131

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience being in a union (against my preferences) it’s not implied, but a fact. Unions have sued their own members for speaking with managers about grievances.

Citation for that?!

I also searched a little and didn’t find a story about this. Where did this occur and what union?

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#156

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

asark wrote: post #118

manigandham wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the "capitalist class"?

> Modern capitalist societies—marked by a universalization of money-based social relations, a consistently large and system-wide class of workers who must work for wages, and a capitalist class which owns the means of production [....] Emphasis mine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

[deleted]

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#157

Post by owenmarshall » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

solotronics wrote: post #124

I want to play the devils advocate here. If these jobs were gotten rid of with automation would these workers be better or worse off? I know the essential argument is that the job should pay more and also not be automated away but due to the competitive nature of capitalism there is a tipping point where it becomes cheaper to have robots do the work. Should all these jobs be replaced by robots? What would society loo…

> I don't think anybody in charge is answering these important questions.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-...

Oh, they absolutely are thinking about these questions.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#158

Post by manigandham » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

asark wrote: post #118

manigandham wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the "capitalist class"?

> Modern capitalist societies—marked by a universalization of money-based social relations, a consistently large and system-wide class of workers who must work for wages, and a capitalist class which owns the means of production [....] Emphasis mine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

I expected another definition in the context of that comment, but fine. According to that, it's anyone who owns the means to production, and is thus the most open class possible. Rather strange to say they're dividing and conquering when anyone can join.

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#159

Post by imglorp » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #144

blaser-waffle wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most online shill-bots are 1) bots, 2) outsourced to india/china/russia/rural US/etc. They sound like real people who aren't PR execs because that's what they are. They're just hired by [3rd Party Marketing Firm] cuz they're stay at home moms or making use of Mechanical Turk for cash on the side.

According to this article, they're actual warehouse employees who tweet one day and work on the warehouse three other days: https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/23/what-is-this-weird-twitter...

Is a normal warehouse schedule 4 tens?

Re: I feel like im talking to the borg

#160

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

solotronics wrote: post #124

I want to play the devils advocate here. If these jobs were gotten rid of with automation would these workers be better or worse off? I know the essential argument is that the job should pay more and also not be automated away but due to the competitive nature of capitalism there is a tipping point where it becomes cheaper to have robots do the work. Should all these jobs be replaced by robots? What would society loo…

[deleted]