Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't this happening in Hong Kong as well? Destroying properties, and especially Molotov cocktails.
Just curious, where did you get these ideas?
Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
371–380 of 426 posts
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was the theory during the Clinton administration and, to be blunt, that theory has been wrong. The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. The west has fundamentally failed to make that case to them and even now western democracy is on the decline. Please, please do not take a free China for granted. Do not think that change — that democracy and freedom — is…
> The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. Joel Garreau once said (IIRC) "To not have the problems of your parents is to not have problems." If you grew up worried about hunger, and now you have enough to eat, life is good. Political freedom? Might be nice, but not a big problem. For the next generation, though, who grew up with enough food to eat... > The west…
And what makes you state this about the west? Citation or more detailed reason would be nice.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well Chinese has been ruling by lifelong kings and dictators like Mao for thousands of years. Democracy doesn’t have a great foundation there and it just need years of cultivation through education or whatever. The culture also somewhat aligned with the “do greater good” and “society should be unionized” ideology which doesn’t make lifelong leaders look like a stupid idea
This is a common argument that Chinese/East-Asian culture makes democracy extremely difficult. The prime counter examples are Taiwan, South Korea, and even Japan. Similar cultural background, but all are able to operate in a liberal democracy in a relatively short amount of time.
Well for one thing the scale is quite different in terms of population and size. They are more like at most two Chinese provinces combined. Another thing is more historical: they are all effectively allies of the US and even with US troops deployed on their land. IMO they are not quite compelling examples.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m currently in Mainland China for a few months. Just searched and surely it’s totally fine: - Winnie the Pooh Baidu search: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/49120719/62957954-... - Baidu image search featuring both Winnie and Xi: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/49120719/62958027-... (Memes are filtered or at least demoted, though.) My local friends don’t think it was ever banned. (Of course they…
The ban was a long time ago, in 2017. https://www.hk01.com/中國/105476/太像習近平-小熊維尼-慘遭-河蟹 Of course you wouldn't have problem about it now. Yes, there are a lot of stupid claims a out China in the western press, but there are easily equally, if not more, absurd claims about USA in China too. Same for Europe, the Middle East, Africa, so on and so forth. BTW, maybe try 8964 八九六四 and see what you get.
The link you provided says the phrase "Winnie the Pooh" couldn't be posted on Weibo/WeChat at that time, with a screenshot not supporting that claim, but rather showing a sticker pack of Winnie the Pooh no long being available. Assuming that was truthful (I wouldn't be so sure because HK news about Mainland China can be as exaggerated as Western news, sometimes more because the stake's higher) that's still pretty far from the "someone who bans all Winnie The Pooh pictures across a country" claim above.
> but there are easily equally, if not more, absurd claims about USA in China too.
I wouldn't be surprised. Naturally this is what happens when you talk about things you have zero experience with.
> BTW, maybe try 8964 八九六四 and see what you get.
I never said nothing is censored. Btw at least every single soul I've talked to about this in China knows exactly what it means, contrary to claims I've seen from certain Western journalists that people typically aren't aware. Censoring something inevitably makes people more interested.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
The constitution of Hong Kong known as the "basic law" allows for Beijing's military action. Corresponding mainland Chinese law allows for military action in Hong Kong when things seem unmanageable for the city's government. Defacing state property and paralyzing the airport seem to be Exhibit A and B? There isn't any framework where this would be seen as illegal or illegitimate. Even under a foreign power's "nationa…
> There isn't any framework where this would be seen as illegal or illegitimate. Doing it just to effectively end "One China, two systems" would absolutely be breaking a teaty. Which is illegal.
sorry, which treaty?
The Sino-British Joint Declaration resulted in the enactment of the Basic Law, of which entitles China to provide for military support, intervention, and assumption of administrative functions in Hong Kong.
Its not breaking a treaty when you use the provisions of it.
The only stipulation of the treaty, an ideological line in spirit, is that the socialist policies are not enacted. All that means is that markets stay open and there are no strings attached when the state provides for you. That has nothing to do with the military entering.
And finally, articles 158 and 159 of the Basic Law put the "Standing Committee of the National People's Congress" as the final arbiter and interpreter of the whole thing. It has always been this way, and the rationale for not using it is thinner than ever.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. Joel Garreau once said (IIRC) "To not have the problems of your parents is to not have problems." If you grew up worried about hunger, and now you have enough to eat, life is good. Political freedom? Might be nice, but not a big problem. For the next generation, though, who grew up with enough food to eat... > The west…
And what makes you state this about the west? Citation or more detailed reason would be nice.
Trump isn't the best advertisement for how well democracy works. Neither is Boris Johnson. (In fact, Trump v Clinton as a choice for leader... shudder.)
The alt-right and antifa battling it out in the streets isn't a great look for democracy and the rule of law, either.
Epstein may have been the world's most successful pimp and blackmailer, and thrived for years among our elite. That's not a great look, either.
Then there's income disparity, the alienation of so many in our society (though it's probably still better than working in a Foxconn factory), debt (especially from medical care and higher education), the rise of opioid addiction, and suicide.
A Chinese could be forgiven for looking at all that and saying "No thanks. Your freedom isn't going to get me where I want to go."
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
The OP started without substance while trying to smear HKers fighting for their freedom from the authoritarian CCP so why attack the person who highlights the suspicious nature of the accusers account? We live in a world of ever increasing propaganda. Pointing it out is as substantive as it gets. If anything your message is better suited for the OP. They did exactly what you are flagging the child comment for.
If you think OP is smearing, you can refute his argument with facts and flag his comment. It’s a human bias to think someone whom we disagree with has a malicious agenda. Democracy can survive the worst oppression, but will perish if we fail to conduct civilized discussion and start accusing and labeling each other when we disagree.
Calling a liar a liar is better use of time and energy than tirelessly repeating facts ad nauseam.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was the theory during the Clinton administration and, to be blunt, that theory has been wrong. The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. The west has fundamentally failed to make that case to them and even now western democracy is on the decline. Please, please do not take a free China for granted. Do not think that change — that democracy and freedom — is…
> The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. Yes, in the face of a dystopian surveillance apparatus and a Party that will not hesitate to commit mass murder to maintain power, Chinese citizens are understandably reticent to publicly ask for _anything_ besides basic subsistence and stability.
How arrogant.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is just the brainwashing that you've received growing up in the west. I know because I grew up in the US, but I've learned more about other countries and realized that things aren't really like this.
Accusing people of being brainwashed isn’t a strong argument.
Cannot agree more.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does my theories about International reactions on Brexit and the Irish border have to do with the legality of China using troops to forcefully break another treaty? Would China’s action become legal depending on what I answer?
Because the current UK government’s Brexit position will cause them to violate the GFA treaty with Ireland. Its the same behavior. I presumed you would have been able to make the leap.
I understand that, but it has nothing do with whether or not China be using force to break a legal treaty or not. Unless what you really want is to divert the discussion away from whether or not China would be breaking a treaty to cases of other nations breaking treaties.