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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#391

Post by Reason077 »

stordoff wrote: post #330
Reason077 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps not today, because there aren't enough cars to use them - demand needs to catch up. But yes, it's feasible to fill entire parking lots with outlets at every parking spot. There are already examples of this in Norway. The outlets can be built to share and distribute available power, so the grid connection required is not as huge as you might think. In practice this isn't an issue, as it's unlikely that every o…

> The outlets can be built to share and distribute available power, so the grid connection required is not as huge as you might think Doesn't this re-introduce the original problem? If less power is available, you have to spend longer charging.

> "Doesn't this re-introduce the original problem? If less power is available, you have to spend longer charging."

Not a realistic concern, at present, because the chances that a large parking lot will be filled with even 10% EVs is small. At any given time, most stalls will be occupied by fossil cars, cars not needing charging, or will just be empty.

In the future as demand increases, if you start to hit the limit then you can look at upgrading the electrical supply.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#392

Post by JustSomeNobody »

secabeen wrote: post #262
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #20

This is why we need standard, swappable battery packs. You pull into a "filling station" and a robot pulls your used pack and pops in a new one. 5 minutes, in and out. Sad thing is, this isn't a new idea. People just don't seem to want it.

One of the reasons is that batteries are expensive, and can be damaged/degraded. If I have a nice battery that I've treated well, and I swap it at the swap station for a different one, I would be unhappy if I got a totally worn-out battery.

The idea is that you don’t really own it. The company doing the swapping has it in their best interest to make sure you don’t get a dud. Like gas stations; if you get bad gas at one you take your business elsewhere next time.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#393

Post by throw0101a »

flyingfences wrote: post #197
kennywinker wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ebike/scoot to transit hub, trains to commercial areas. It’s not rocket science.

Bikes and scooters are great (provided there are safe riding lanes and trails) until there's any weather. If I have to show up at work looking presentable then biking through a downpour simply isn't an option. If there's any sort of snow or ice on the ground then biking simply isn't an option.

The Dutch don't seem to have a problem:

* https://www.iamexpat.nl/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/biking-safe...

* https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2014/09/04/cycling-in-the...

In Toronto I cycle from April to December, rain or shine. I know folks that also do it January to March, but I can't be bothered to buy the extra insulation layers so I take transit.

I have two panniers: one for my lunch and the other for my rain gear:

* https://www.rei.com/c/cycling-jackets/f/f-waterproof

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#394

Post by throw0101a »

mises wrote: post #302
wffurr wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to wear rain gear or budget some time to clean up once you arrive at your destination. Any sort of plan to encourage active commutes should also include facilities in workplaces for this sort of thing. Snow and ice: not as big a problem as you think. Cities and towns can plow and salt bike paths even easier than they do streets. You can also put studded tires on bicycles if you're in a particularly snow…

I think when he says "show up looking presentable", it may be that he needs to be in suits or business casual, preferably unwrinkled. Also, I am exceptionally disinclined to bike through below-zero weather, snow tires or no (referring to the hypothetical canadian). Let alone Texas summers, which regularly hit 105 this time of year. I don't care if there are showers or not, it's just darn unpleasant to be outside this…

Cycle in with your lycra and then change into your work clothes. I've pedalled in -10C and 35C in Toronto.

Showering at work isn't necessary either: sweat is odourless, and the stickiness comes from bacteria. So you can actually shower before cycling to get things clean and you'll be fine the whole day.

In some ways we're actually ourselves too much:

* https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/550291/beyond-soap-...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#395

Post by hwillis »

bsder wrote: post #255
neogodless wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your example/link illustrates the point. > These stations are expensive (up to $100,000) and require more power than your house, so you’ll never have one of these in your garage. In other words, most chargers are not going to be "the best." Especially ones in less affluent neighborhoods, within a short drive (or on the way) of wherever you happen to be. Maybe it's a 10 minute round trip for a 5 minute wait (a…

> > These stations are expensive (up to $100,000) and require more power than your house, so you’ll never have one of these in your garage. I challenge this on the cost front and on the power front. There is zero reason why a fast charger should be $100,000 other than the fact that the volume is sufficiently low that these are all hand built. The semiconductors in that thing can't possibly be $100,000 in volume. Copp…

> The semiconductors in that thing can't possibly be $100,000 in volume. Copper is roughly $10 per kilogram--or $100,000 and you could use 10 metric tonnes--there is no way those things hold 10,000 kg of copper.

I mean... yes, you're right. A better example would be that electric cars can already convert 3-phase to DC (as well as the other way), and the Tesla Model 3 can convert over 200 kW even though it comes with a motor, battery, and an entire car for far less than $100k.

> As for the power, these things are probably more than 90% efficient, so they don't use any more power than the smaller ones (the load they are charging is a fixed size regardless of how fast you charge it). They may use more current, but that's the whole point! These things charge your car faster.

Closer to 95%, most likely. There also theoretically are very few bad chargers (despite exceptions[1]) since most of the cost is in installation, insurance, and weather/tamperproofing.

[1]: https://hackaday.com/2019/08/07/a-post-mortem-for-an-electri...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#396

Post by throw0101a »

quicklyfrozen wrote: post #336
stevesimmons wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cycled to work for years in the Netherlands (down to -5C in winter) and Australia (frequenctly 35C+ in summer). The secret in both cases is: (i) keep appropriate clothes at the office; (ii) wear suitable cycling gear (as the Dutch say, there's no such thing as unsuitable weather, only unsuitable clothing); (iii) find a way to shower at work; (iv) be good humored when weather or other mishaps occur...

-5C isn't particularly cold. Would you have been out in -20C with gusty winds and drifting snow? How do I get those appropriate clothes to the office, and where do I store them? Can't be all wrinkled -- and these days you may not even have an assigned desk. And I can be good humored, but will my boss be? Really, though, if we consider bikes safe enough for transportation, why can't we have ultralight enclosed EVs?

(i) There are plenty of places where it gets down to "only" -5C or -10C where it would still be practicable; you're giving worse case scenarios but those don't apply everywhere. We can do what we can where we can. (ii) Bring it in your pannier or backpack (buying wrinkle-free helps as well).

* https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/how-to-carry-a-suit-on-your-...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#397

Post by throw0101a »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #355
wffurr wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biked in snow plenty of times. It's fine. Also cities can plow bike trails even easier than they plow streets. Plenty of bike options for little kids. Seats, trailers, box bikes, etc. etc.

How can they plow bike trails easier than streets, especially in the case where the trail is not attached to a street?

In my city there is often street parking during non-rush times, and so parked cars can get in the way of the plows and so it may be hard to clear.

On a bike trail there are no such obstacles: just push the snow to the side.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#398

Post by CamperBob2 »

wffurr wrote: post #276
dtwest wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't work in many low density areas (prime example is American suburbia). So your answer for those people is to make them move to a more dense area that can support such solutions. Which isn't a bad idea, but it's a much harder thing to accomplish.

Or build out infrastructure in those areas too. In suburbs, there's plenty of room for separate bike paths and trains. It doesn't require everyone to move into Soviet-style superblocks and towers.

Not everyone can ride bikes, and trains just take you from one place where you don't want to be to another place where you don't want to be.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#399

Post by [deleted] »

chrisseaton wrote: post #241
thehappypm wrote: post #220

This stopped me from buying a Tesla with my most recent car purchase. I live in a 100 year old apartment in Boston that has 0 parking spots for over 100 units. My wife and I share a car, mostly for weekend adventuring, so we rent a spot in a dude's backyard down the block from us. It works well for us, much more convenient than the rat race of street parking. But it was hard to imagine that life with a Tesla. I could…

> I live in a 100 year old apartment Keeping in mind '100 years old' sounds dramatic but is now as recent as 1919, which doesn't sound that old when you write it out! That's about a fifth of the housing stock in the UK I believe. Obviously, almost none of these houses have garages. I wonder if local governments could install plugs under little hatches like they use for stop cocks all the way down residential roads. h…

[deleted]

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#400

Post by timClicks »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #355
wffurr wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biked in snow plenty of times. It's fine. Also cities can plow bike trails even easier than they plow streets. Plenty of bike options for little kids. Seats, trailers, box bikes, etc. etc.

How can they plow bike trails easier than streets, especially in the case where the trail is not attached to a street?

Use smaller plows. They can be fitted to ATVs/quads.
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