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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#251

Post by Aloha »

trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

I think the argument going is that if you live in a city core, you don't need a car, so most places don't have parking.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#252

Post by Brakenshire »

jedberg wrote: post #121
oh_hello wrote: post #114

I always thought this was a big problem for EVs, but recently came to think nightly charging might not matter so much for these drivers. If an urban apartment dweller has an EV with 200+ miles of range, can't a public fast charger be used once or twice a week instead? I lived in an apartment with a ~200 mile range ICE car and filled it less than once a week.

Filling your car at the gas station is a five minute stop on the way home. Filing your electric car is at least an hour if you have a DC fast charger and that gets you only 80% full. To get totally full, it would take a multi-hour stop.

You’d do a weekly food shop, and do your weekly charge at the same time.

“Well over an hour” is wrong, there’s almost no electric car that won’t do an 80% charge in 45 minutes, and most take half an hour.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#253

Post by dannyking »

flyingfences wrote: post #197
kennywinker wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ebike/scoot to transit hub, trains to commercial areas. It’s not rocket science.

Bikes and scooters are great (provided there are safe riding lanes and trails) until there's any weather. If I have to show up at work looking presentable then biking through a downpour simply isn't an option. If there's any sort of snow or ice on the ground then biking simply isn't an option.

Yes. You also need to factor in things like having young kids. Before I had them taking an ebike to a train would make perfect sense. Now though, without a car it would be incredibly difficult to get them to daycare and make it to work on time without waking up before Dawn.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#254

Post by secabeen »

pjc50 wrote: post #180
gist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to run an extension cord out of my 2nd floor window > More recently, I had been parking an electric car in my apartment's lot, and running an extension cord from the exercise room, out to the car. Then the apartment decided to close off those outlets. Won't even get to what I am sure others have raised about safety issues. My question is why do you go to this effort? What in you makes you want to go to this…

Personal contribution to the environment?

That's a big one for me. It's the largest thing you can probably do to reduce global warming, personally. EVs are also faster to accelerate, and more fun to drive.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#255

Post by bsder »

neogodless wrote: post #194
DataGata wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why will public chargers be slow? We should assume that those who provide public charging services (the gas stations of the future) will be trying to optimize throughput + convenience store sales. DC fast chargers currently get you 40 miles in ten minutes[1] (that sucks!) so your extra 20 miles gets you an extra 5 minute wait. Presumably that wait can be "limited" by getting your shopping done or grabbing a bite to e…

I think your example/link illustrates the point. > These stations are expensive (up to $100,000) and require more power than your house, so you’ll never have one of these in your garage. In other words, most chargers are not going to be "the best." Especially ones in less affluent neighborhoods, within a short drive (or on the way) of wherever you happen to be. Maybe it's a 10 minute round trip for a 5 minute wait (a…

> > These stations are expensive (up to $100,000) and require more power than your house, so you’ll never have one of these in your garage.

I challenge this on the cost front and on the power front.

There is zero reason why a fast charger should be $100,000 other than the fact that the volume is sufficiently low that these are all hand built. The semiconductors in that thing can't possibly be $100,000 in volume. Copper is roughly $10 per kilogram--or $100,000 and you could use 10 metric tonnes--there is no way those things hold 10,000 kg of copper.

As for the power, these things are probably more than 90% efficient, so they don't use any more power than the smaller ones (the load they are charging is a fixed size regardless of how fast you charge it). They may use more current, but that's the whole point! These things charge your car faster.

The biggest issue with installing these at home is probably access to genuine 440V (or higher) 3 phase. And you probably get around that by making the charger the equivalent of a Powerwall--it stores the energy at normal 220 feed levels but blasts it into your car from it's own batteries as fast as it can.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#256

Post by jedberg »

Brakenshire wrote: post #252
jedberg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Filling your car at the gas station is a five minute stop on the way home. Filing your electric car is at least an hour if you have a DC fast charger and that gets you only 80% full. To get totally full, it would take a multi-hour stop.

You’d do a weekly food shop, and do your weekly charge at the same time. “Well over an hour” is wrong, there’s almost no electric car that won’t do an 80% charge in 45 minutes, and most take half an hour.

I never said it would take an hour. I specifically said you could get an 80% charge in about an hour.

And the grocery store better have a lot of chargers if everyone is doing their weekly fillup while they shop.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#257

Post by gok »

DataGata wrote: post #183
neogodless wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Most homeowners have laundry in their home. Starting and switching loads is a few minutes, and the rest of their time is still free. Many high-end apartments have laundry within a short walk from each residence. It's largely the same experience. But then those with less ability to afford "nice…

Why will public chargers be slow? We should assume that those who provide public charging services (the gas stations of the future) will be trying to optimize throughput + convenience store sales. DC fast chargers currently get you 40 miles in ten minutes[1] (that sucks!) so your extra 20 miles gets you an extra 5 minute wait. Presumably that wait can be "limited" by getting your shopping done or grabbing a bite to e…

That article is from 2011. Modern fast chargers are 2-3x faster than that, and the next generation (350 kW chargers) will cut times in half again.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#258

Post by Brakenshire »

kelnos wrote: post #179
oh_hello wrote: post #114

I always thought this was a big problem for EVs, but recently came to think nightly charging might not matter so much for these drivers. If an urban apartment dweller has an EV with 200+ miles of range, can't a public fast charger be used once or twice a week instead? I lived in an apartment with a ~200 mile range ICE car and filled it less than once a week.

That might work for urbanites who drive to work and work in the same city where they live. But I know quite a few people whose daily commute is 40+ miles each way. They'd be visiting the charger every other day. That's unfortunately very common for people who live in San Francisco and work outside the city, and vice versa. (I have a different problem: I walk or take transit to work, and have a car mainly for longer t…

Surely not having access to private parking is almost entirely an urbanite problem, to do with living in apartment blocks. Anyone who lives in the suburbs would be very likely to have their own parking.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#259

Post by dabinat »

Why is this a problem? Gas-powered cars don’t fill up when they’re parked. Just solve the problem the same way - let people go to a specific place to charge their car like they do to fill up with gas.

I have a Tesla and live in an apartment and it’s really not a big problem. The Superchargers are pretty convenient. And once Tesla rolls out L3 chargers more widely it will be even easier.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#260

Post by bduerst »

I saw an interesting pitch from Sparkcharge [1] at an incubator event, which is deliverable super charger batteries.

If it scales, it would essentially allow people to order charging on the fly, get it delivered/hooked up by an Uber driver, and then just leave it for pickup in the lot they parked in. This is obviously only an urban or suburban solution, but could help with some of the issues.

[1] https://sparkcharge.io/

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