Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars? • Hacker News Board

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#301

Post by nextos » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:01 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #134

wffurr wrote: post #127

Yet another reason the real answer to the climate crisis isn't EVs - it's public transit, bicycles, e-bikes, scooters, e-scooters, walking, etc. All these other modes are much lower impact on the environment than purchasing and operating an EV, much less an ICE.

You have to add "redesigned cities" to that list. Electric vehicles are almost as much a patch for ICE cities as they are a replacement for internal combustion.

Some cities in mainland Europe are like this already. They make cars unnecessary. Even bikes, as you can walk everywhere.

I'm talking about midsized cities (100-300k inhabitants) that are really compact thanks to 4-8 levels in every apartment block and ubiquitous use of lifts.

Lifts are the disruptive technology. They make energetically efficient cities possible and cheap.

I also find these cities much more nice to live in. Nice parks, avenues and shopping streets. I guess they are the heirs of the Hellenic tradition of valuing meeting squares a lot.

In contrast, as much as I like other aspects of Anglo-Saxon societies, their terraced or detached house model is energetically unsustainable, and yields both liveless suburbs and downtowns.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#302

Post by mises » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:03 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #271

flyingfences wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes and scooters are great (provided there are safe riding lanes and trails) until there's any weather. If I have to show up at work looking presentable then biking through a downpour simply isn't an option. If there's any sort of snow or ice on the ground then biking simply isn't an option.

It's not hard to wear rain gear or budget some time to clean up once you arrive at your destination. Any sort of plan to encourage active commutes should also include facilities in workplaces for this sort of thing. Snow and ice: not as big a problem as you think. Cities and towns can plow and salt bike paths even easier than they do streets. You can also put studded tires on bicycles if you're in a particularly snow…

I think when he says "show up looking presentable", it may be that he needs to be in suits or business casual, preferably unwrinkled. Also, I am exceptionally disinclined to bike through below-zero weather, snow tires or no (referring to the hypothetical canadian). Let alone Texas summers, which regularly hit 105 this time of year. I don't care if there are showers or not, it's just darn unpleasant to be outside this time of year.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#303

Post by dsfyu404ed » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #248

neogodless wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Most homeowners have laundry in their home. Starting and switching loads is a few minutes, and the rest of their time is still free. Many high-end apartments have laundry within a short walk from each residence. It's largely the same experience. But then those with less ability to afford "nice…

Perhaps a laundromat with chargers. I've often said that if I were to open a retail business, it'd be a 24 hours combo, laundromat, pizza place, coffee shop and book store, probably with a side of bodega inside.

Laundromat thrift store. You need to wash all the clothing you take in and people want to wash stuff after they buy it.

A food truck might bundle with a tool truck. Considering that food trucks occasionally run out of trailers you could explore the idea with minimal risk by owning one and partnering with someone who has the other

The idea has potential but you'd need the experience of actually running these kinds of things in order to figure out what combinations result in the economics fitting together nicely. I think there's high risk that the regulatory burden of serving food may add overhead that makes other ventures uneconomical to bundle.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#304

Post by AshleyGrant » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

Havoc wrote: post #49

Seems the US is at a severe disadvantage here with 110V. Also, surely people can charge at work? 8 hours at work should cover a fair bit of the population

The US has both 240v single phase and 208v three phase across the entire country. Any house with an electric range would have 240v service and can likely handle a L2 charger.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#305

Post by olivermarks » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

post_break wrote: post #249

olivermarks wrote: post #213

In California the bankrupt PG&E power company will be turning off power during fire season high risk periods to limit their exposure. Escape from fire in an EV won't be possible unless you keep a fully charged vehicle on standby regardless of the charging location.

Can you drive a tesla while it's being charged? A small trailer with a generator on the back could work as an emergency.

yes with some caveats https://generatorgrid.com/blog/tesla/

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#306

Post by mises » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #275

dannyking wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You also need to factor in things like having young kids. Before I had them taking an ebike to a train would make perfect sense. Now though, without a car it would be incredibly difficult to get them to daycare and make it to work on time without waking up before Dawn.

You can't put the kids on the ebike to daycare? Seems like that would be faster and easier than dealing with a car. Just wait until you start in on the total mess that is school drop-off when every parent decides they have to drive their kid to school. Much faster to breeze past the stopped traffic on a bicycle, unstrap the kids and send them on their way, and bike to the train.

Not every one has only two kids. It's going to get awfully tough for those with four or five without a minivan.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#307

Post by chc » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:07 PM UTC

ysavir wrote: post #265

ummonk wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of travel (both commutes and long distance travel) which is too lengthy for bicycles / scooters, but doesn't have public transit servicing it.

I think that's GP's point: Instead of investing in EVs, we should be expanding public transport to reduce the dependencies on personal vehicles in the first place.

Who is "we"? I don't know about where you are, but where I live, there is tons of public transport, with more being developed all the time, but nobody wants to use it because the design of the area is fundamentally unsuited to mass transit. If we spent 1/10 the time and money making infrastructure for EVs, everyone would be able to have one already, but we don't. We keep trying and failing to make public transit work.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#308

Post by rjbwork » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

mises wrote: post #302

wffurr wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to wear rain gear or budget some time to clean up once you arrive at your destination. Any sort of plan to encourage active commutes should also include facilities in workplaces for this sort of thing. Snow and ice: not as big a problem as you think. Cities and towns can plow and salt bike paths even easier than they do streets. You can also put studded tires on bicycles if you're in a particularly snow…

I think when he says "show up looking presentable", it may be that he needs to be in suits or business casual, preferably unwrinkled. Also, I am exceptionally disinclined to bike through below-zero weather, snow tires or no (referring to the hypothetical canadian). Let alone Texas summers, which regularly hit 105 this time of year. I don't care if there are showers or not, it's just darn unpleasant to be outside this…

Sub-zero weather isn't too bad down to maybe -10C. After that, it's pretty brutal.

I do try not to take superfluous trips on my e-bike above maybe 95 though.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#309

Post by steelframe » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #127

Yet another reason the real answer to the climate crisis isn't EVs - it's public transit, bicycles, e-bikes, scooters, e-scooters, walking, etc. All these other modes are much lower impact on the environment than purchasing and operating an EV, much less an ICE.

> Yet another reason the real answer to the climate crisis isn't EVs

If our objective is to significantly reduce carbon emissions from people moving from point 'A' to point 'B', fully electric vehicles are a red herring solution. It's more realistic and cheaper to focus on plug-in hybrids. That way you can achieve 90% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from driving 4-wheeled vehicles without requiring new infrastructure or requiring people to drastically change their habits.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14/reducing-carbon-emissio...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#310

Post by bin0 » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #127

Yet another reason the real answer to the climate crisis isn't EVs - it's public transit, bicycles, e-bikes, scooters, e-scooters, walking, etc. All these other modes are much lower impact on the environment than purchasing and operating an EV, much less an ICE.

And yet, public transportation is not the same. Americans love their cars because we are a very independent people who appreciate the ability to go where we want, when we want. An EV could at least conceivably be a replacement, though that will be difficult until they can charge in a time comparable to that of a gas station fueling and go as long or longer. I don't want to have to plan around some schedule set by a committee.

Issue number two: other people. Public transportation is not as nice as a car because you are not insulated from others. I can run my AC nice and high and listen to a pod cast in peace and quiet in my car, even if I've got to deal with jostling cars on the outside. In a train/bus/etc, you never know what you'll get. Half the time there's some one with music blasting, or cussing loudly. The other half they guy next to me smells awful or takes two seats because he's a land whale. If by some miracle neither of those things is true, all the seats are taken. Public transportation sucks,

I like my car, and see no personal reason to switch to a less-comfortable and less-available form of transportation for the sake of some one else's political win.