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Porsche Taycan [video]

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Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#121

Post by MegaButts »

threeseed wrote: post #115
CapricornNoble wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>why do we need cars that can do 0-60 in 2-3 seconds So you can pass cars that are driving too slow in the fastlane at highway speeds. 0-60 times are a general indication of the car's torque curve and power delivery. Depending on gearing, there's a pretty good chance a car with crazy-good acceleration will have no problems "bobbing and weaving" around some slowpoke in front of you without requiring hundreds of mete…

> impromptu drag race with a random motorist Reckless driving like this consistently kills innocent people and most drivers who do this eventually end up losing their license or ending up in jail. Not sure it's the sort of target demographic car companies should be looking at.

> and most drivers who do this eventually end up losing their license or ending up in jail

How could you possibly know this? You have no idea how many people do it and never get caught.

> Reckless driving like this consistently kills innocent people

You know what else consistently kills people? Tesla's Autopilot. I bet Tesla isn't discouraging use of that expensive feature though. In fact they defend it ruthlessly in the media and in court, despite more and more evidence pointing towards it being more dangerous than manual driving. To be fair though, I'm unaware of it ever killing anyone outside of the vehicle, so I guess it's just people killing themselves which is very different from killing innocent bystanders.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#122

Post by pmorici »

kreetx wrote: post #94
davewritescode wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re also stressing repeatability of 0-60 acceleration where Tesla reports 0-60 on nearly full batteries. The Model3 performance consistency is better than the model s because they improved the cooling system but performance drops off quickly after a couple of runs. I expect the Porsche to deliver consistent performance because that’s what they’ve been talking about for the last 3 years. Specifically, the referred…

How far do the Teslas fall in terms of seconds when you accelerate over and over again? Otherwise very cool that Porsche has achieved this!

This article [0] talks about the acceleration performance of the latest Model S P100D variant at different states of battery charge. Bottom line is that unless the battery is under 10% it is faster than the Taycan.

All the stories about the S "overheating" seem to be talking about the older model or this article [1] about how a heavily modified S over heated at a race track. Porsche has to emphasize reputability because it's all they got. I mean they designed an electric sports car that is getting beat by Tesla's family sedan.

There is also the issue of how long the car can maintain it's top speed w/o overheating but I'm not sure Porsche is making any claims about that here and that's an issue with any car gas or electric.

[0] https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/...

[1] https://en.cartests.net/2018/07/05/racing-tesla-p100dl-is-gr...

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#123

Post by nullwasamistake »

endorphone wrote: post #49
steelframe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

"Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick." I live in a rural exurb area. Every spring-fall weekend features parades of supercars of the various supercar clubs. Million dollar plus vehicles. All driving at 60km, driving no differently than the Corolla that accidentally turned into their procession. Because it's all party tricks. These people aren't racing these cars, but are just sitting on potential . As an aside,…

High drain isn't the problem, most lithium ion can be drained at 15-50C (drain rate not temperature) until empty without being harmed.

P100D is 100kw/h battery, which should be able to put out at least 1500 hp continuously.

The problem is 100% Tesla's cooling system not being powerful enough.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#124

Post by nullwasamistake »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #40
steelframe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

> A properly engineered drivetrain will be able to sustain its launches over several back-to-back activations All cars designed primarily for the highway rather than the track have issues with brake heating, transmission fluid heating, et cetera, and slow down over time. The Model S is extreme in that manner, but the Model 3 slowdowns are are far less extreme than the S's limp mode. > NHTSA recently sent Tesla a ceas…

> All cars designed primarily for the highway rather than the track have issues with brake heating, transmission fluid heating, et cetera, and slow down over time.

This doesn't include trucks which are a large part of the market. Being designed to haul, everything is oversized.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#125

Post by nullwasamistake »

pmcollins wrote: post #5

It has a two-speed transmission, which should help with high-speed performance. https://insideevs.com/news/343827/porsche-taycan-2-speed-rea... But one of the advantages of an electric car for me is the possibility of no (variable) transmission. I don't want clutches that are constantly wearing down as I drive. For me this is not about money or maintenance headaches, but about elegance.

No gearing is bad for performance and inelegant. Tesla's cars should have a top speed over 220 given their power and acceleration. They're all limited to ~140 because no gearing.

The motors start to get inefficient even around 80mph. Telsa's have amazing 0-60 performance but get beaten by many cars on a highway roll because of no gearing.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#126

Post by rasz »

MrFoof wrote: post #81
gsnedders wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Porsche are fairly well known for being very conservative with their published 0-60/62 numbers.

The reason for this is Porsche's 0-60/0-62 times are intended to be reproduced in less than ideal conditions, and with great repeat-ability For example, 105F/40C air temps on a concrete surface (low-friction) with some amount of sand. Or 15F/-10C on a concrete surface. And you can do that back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back... for an hour (with say 50 standing starts), non-stop. You'll see little variation i…

>Porsche (especially as you step further up a model line into the high end stuff) is probably THE brand known to go out on a track and stay out there longer

not without the mods https://www.sharkwerks.com/tech-articles/the-gt1-coolant-pip... note those are all performance models intended for racing/track day use, shipped with factory deficiency. Race tracks actually have a special rule for Porsche and will turn you back/fine you heavily if you bring unmodified car and break down.

There was even NHTSA investigation, but Porsche weaseled out claiming this defect doesnt manifest during "normal" aka road use and even if it did coolant lines are behind rear wheels so catastrophic failure wont influence stopping ability .... https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2007/PORSCHE/911/2%252520DR/RW... "31 Affected Products"

Funnily enough Panameras and Cayennes have same glued lines, directly above front wheels, and Porsche will happily fix this for you at $2000 a pop, again optionally because car not intended for track use.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#127

Post by GhostVII »

ratsbane wrote: post #34

It all looks very nice, but is it just a copy of the Model 3 with a few upgraded bits (air suspension) and twice the price? Also, the interior seemed very dark - maybe just the pre-production version hiding some details or I'm just used to the glass Model 3 roof. Nice to see more manufacturers getting serious about this obvious electric-car future.

I mean it's a copy of the Model 3 in the same sense that a Porsche 911 is a copy of a BMW 3 series.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#128

Post by clouddrover »

endorphone wrote: post #49
steelframe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

"Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick." I live in a rural exurb area. Every spring-fall weekend features parades of supercars of the various supercar clubs. Million dollar plus vehicles. All driving at 60km, driving no differently than the Corolla that accidentally turned into their procession. Because it's all party tricks. These people aren't racing these cars, but are just sitting on potential . As an aside,…

> I don't remember Tesla ever claiming that their vehicles were the "fastest production car"

Here is Tesla making that claim about the Model S. They say, "New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World": https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-pr...

Here is Tesla making an even bigger claim about the future Tesla Roadster with no "production" qualifier. It's claimed to be "the quickest car in the world", which is plainly false: https://www.tesla.com/roadster

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#129

Post by endorphone »

clouddrover wrote: post #128
endorphone wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick." I live in a rural exurb area. Every spring-fall weekend features parades of supercars of the various supercar clubs. Million dollar plus vehicles. All driving at 60km, driving no differently than the Corolla that accidentally turned into their procession. Because it's all party tricks. These people aren't racing these cars, but are just sitting on potential . As an aside,…

> I don't remember Tesla ever claiming that their vehicles were the "fastest production car" Here is Tesla making that claim about the Model S. They say, "New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World": https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-pr... Here is Tesla making an even bigger claim about the future Tesla Roadster with no "production" qualifier. It's claimed to be "the quicke…

Quick != Fast.

Quick in the automotive industry generally refers to acceleration. Fast refers to top speed. Tesla made a big deal about acceleration, but as I said they cede that there are much faster cars out there.

The Tesla is very quick at accelerating. This is indisputable. Tesla made a benefit of electric motors, properly implemented, to push a high end sedan. Eh. That this whole discussion is full of people moaning that Porsche, years and years later, might make a two seater that in some situations is more performant is quite incredible really, and is quite the accolades for Tesla.

Regarding the roadster...how is that plainly false? 2.1 seconds might very much qualify it as the quickest car in the world, production or not. At least for things that qualify as "cars".

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#130

Post by bryanlarsen »

threeseed wrote: post #117
bryanlarsen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been looking forward to the Germans entering the electric car market for real. Should force everyone to step up their game. So was I. The Audi e-tron was supposed to be that, but I've been massively disillusioned by it's horrible efficiency, high price and inability to produce in volume.

Not sure why people don't bring up the Mercedes EQC400. Reviews have been generally excellent so far.

Over $70k for a vehicle with 220 miles of range?
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