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Porsche Taycan [video]

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Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#41

Post by CrazyStat »

steelframe wrote: post #26
clouddrover wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try to drive a Tesla Model S like a performance car it just overheats: https://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-tha... https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-tesla-model-s-can-do-aroun... Here's a Model S losing to a Nissan Leaf over 14 laps: https://insideevs.com/news/359903/video-nissan-leaf-beats-te... Porsche doesn't want to be in line with that.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

>Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Model 3′s safety rating.

Ten months ago, though it has been in the news again the last few days as the letter and response were just released. The blog post in question is still up, which means the NHTSA either backed off after Tesla's response or hasn't yet been able to get a court to take their side.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#42

Post by aaronax »

fnord77 wrote: post #8
pmcollins wrote: post #5

It has a two-speed transmission, which should help with high-speed performance. https://insideevs.com/news/343827/porsche-taycan-2-speed-rea... But one of the advantages of an electric car for me is the possibility of no (variable) transmission. I don't want clutches that are constantly wearing down as I drive. For me this is not about money or maintenance headaches, but about elegance.

you only need clutches when you're stopped - to engage an moving/idling motor to stationary drive wheels. Electric cars don't need clutches because their motors stop too

Probably the car will switch between gears while in motion. It seems to me that it would be difficult to do that smoothly without a clutch.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#43

Post by dabeeeenster »

steelframe wrote: post #26
clouddrover wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try to drive a Tesla Model S like a performance car it just overheats: https://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-tha... https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-tesla-model-s-can-do-aroun... Here's a Model S losing to a Nissan Leaf over 14 laps: https://insideevs.com/news/359903/video-nissan-leaf-beats-te... Porsche doesn't want to be in line with that.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

This is entirely conjecture. Why not wait until the car is actually available.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#44

Post by bryanlarsen »

davewritescode wrote: post #39
steelframe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

100% agree with you, I feel like I get treated like a luddite when I tell people I’m not really a huge fan of Tesla. I’ve been looking forward to the Germans entering the electric car market for real. Should force everyone to step up their game.

> I’ve been looking forward to the Germans entering the electric car market for real. Should force everyone to step up their game.

So was I. The Audi e-tron was supposed to be that, but I've been massively disillusioned by it's horrible efficiency, high price and inability to produce in volume.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#45

Post by ratsbane »

clouddrover wrote: post #10
vvanders wrote: post #9

Glad to see competition finally coming around. That said I still wonder if they're holding back here to not cannibalize other lines. The 0-60 in the 3.5s range is over a full second off Tesla's best and for a performance brand seems like you want to be more in line with Tesla.

If you try to drive a Tesla Model S like a performance car it just overheats: https://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-tha... https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-tesla-model-s-can-do-aroun... Here's a Model S losing to a Nissan Leaf over 14 laps: https://insideevs.com/news/359903/video-nissan-leaf-beats-te... Porsche doesn't want to be in line with that.

For a fair comparison, perhaps it would be better to look at more recent reporting.

Those first two articles are from 2016 and 2014 and the third one (written a few weeks ago) describes a contest between a 2014 Model S and a "New, modified" 2019 Leaf.

The first Google result I see for "Model 3 Performance Overheat" is this one - and it describes how the car did NOT overheat: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-autobahn...

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#46

Post by endorphone »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #30
vvanders wrote: post #9

Glad to see competition finally coming around. That said I still wonder if they're holding back here to not cannibalize other lines. The 0-60 in the 3.5s range is over a full second off Tesla's best and for a performance brand seems like you want to be more in line with Tesla.

0-60 is pretty useless and easy to achieve. Good handling is much harder to achieve and requires more development. I would expect a Porsche to handle much better than tesla.

Acceleration is the one performance metric that drivers push daily, whether it's merging on the highway, passing, or just a thrill from the light. It is a bit disingenuous to say that it's "easy to achieve" given how it has long been the metric of supercars.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#47

Post by Ididntdothis »

endorphone wrote: post #46
Ididntdothis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0-60 is pretty useless and easy to achieve. Good handling is much harder to achieve and requires more development. I would expect a Porsche to handle much better than tesla.

Acceleration is the one performance metric that drivers push daily, whether it's merging on the highway, passing, or just a thrill from the light. It is a bit disingenuous to say that it's "easy to achieve" given how it has long been the metric of supercars.

To get good acceleration you just need a big engine, traction and not much else. 0-60 is not even that meaningful for real world use of acceleration. 30-70 would be much more useful there.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#48

Post by tomp »

endorphone wrote: post #46
Ididntdothis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0-60 is pretty useless and easy to achieve. Good handling is much harder to achieve and requires more development. I would expect a Porsche to handle much better than tesla.

Acceleration is the one performance metric that drivers push daily, whether it's merging on the highway, passing, or just a thrill from the light. It is a bit disingenuous to say that it's "easy to achieve" given how it has long been the metric of supercars.

Sure, but not 0-60 acceleration. The joy of driving a Porsche is that you can kick donw th pedal at 130 km/h and still feel the force of acceleration pushing your body into the seat.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#49

Post by endorphone »

steelframe wrote: post #26
clouddrover wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try to drive a Tesla Model S like a performance car it just overheats: https://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-tha... https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-tesla-model-s-can-do-aroun... Here's a Model S losing to a Nissan Leaf over 14 laps: https://insideevs.com/news/359903/video-nissan-leaf-beats-te... Porsche doesn't want to be in line with that.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

"Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick."

I live in a rural exurb area. Every spring-fall weekend features parades of supercars of the various supercar clubs. Million dollar plus vehicles. All driving at 60km, driving no differently than the Corolla that accidentally turned into their procession. Because it's all party tricks. These people aren't racing these cars, but are just sitting on potential.

As an aside, I don't remember Tesla ever claiming that their vehicles were the "fastest production car", which is normally a measure of top speed. The Tesla has a positively mediocre top speed compared to supercars, and on any longer run will be demolished. It isn't built for repeat launches, or a quick lap at Nürburgring.

But if you want a very confident merge on the highway, pass on the single lane highway, etc, it can confidently provide what you need.

As an aside, all lithium ion batteries are degraded by high drain (similarly they are degraded by fast charging). Porsche is seeming buying the exact same technology in LG packs. They have identical issues that Tesla does. If you launch a P100d without ludicrous mode you'll do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#50

Post by Shivetya »

vvanders wrote: post #9

Glad to see competition finally coming around. That said I still wonder if they're holding back here to not cannibalize other lines. The 0-60 in the 3.5s range is over a full second off Tesla's best and for a performance brand seems like you want to be more in line with Tesla.

I really wish everyone was competing on range rather than acceleration. Range is the number one reason I went with a LR model 3. I don't give a rats ass about how fast it gets to speed.

However it is nice to see an EV with range at least in Tesla territory, granted it still is 2012 territory. I posted before, no premium brand EV should sell anything under 300 miles EPA; I use EPA as it is the one returning the lowest in use numbers which makes it a bit better bet when you try to figure out winter driving numbers too.

the real issue with EV adoption besides choice is if the average buyer has any real interest without incentives.

I do hope the Porsche entry forces Tesla to revamp the S and X interior, the real fix they need is to remove road noise, specifically tires, which is the only issue I have with my 3. (Test drove a S75 so maybe they are better now, no idea)

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