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FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

thehill.com

41–50 of 417 posts

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#41
post #12

“It is prudent to anticipate that a major incident may well occur at any time that will galvanize public opinion on these issues ... Whether we end up with legislation or not, the best course for everyone involved is to work soberly and in good faith together to craft appropriate solutions, rather than have outcomes dictated during a crisis.” -- AG William Barr, July 23 2019 "Never let a good crisis go to waste" -- W…

> "...best course for everyone involved is to work soberly and in good faith..."

Well, AG Barr is probably sober. I'll give him that.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#42
post #30

Does that even make sense from a technical perspective? They are talking about a PIN code to unlock the phone to access the data on the phone. Could they not just remove the memory chip and access it directly? Even if the data on it is encrypted using a 6-digit PIN, brute-forcing that should be a trivial task.

[deleted]

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#43

Why is it important that the FBI can access that person’s phone?

I'm wondering this too. The person already killed a bunch of people. The person is dead. What more to they hope to gain? Some secret cell of others? Unlikely .. and if there is, why not regular warrants, wiretaps, e-mail searches, etc. They already have sooo many tools they can use, both with a warrant and bypassing it via FISA. They had all this domestic spying stuff and still couldn't prevent the shooting! They get…

Probably to understand motive, and check for potential involvement of others.

And whilst they have a metric shit-ton of spying capabilities on US civilians, those are not really intended to avoid crime. (Maybe the shift of perception of what is terrorism might change that, though)

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#45
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom is more important.

Is your definition of freedom not being able to access the phone of a dead gunman?

Yes, in part.

My definition of freedom is that no initiated force is allowed.

That includes no forcing tech companies to put backdoors in their phones.

I'm OK with retaliatory force used in self defense, and I consider having a government and having taxation to fund it to fall under that umbrella. So I'm not an anarchist. Rather, I'm a certain breed of classical liberal.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#46
post #44

Why is it important that the FBI can access that person’s phone?

Yes. They got the guy. There's not much question about him pulling the trigger. And he's dead. What's to find out?

Co-defendants or co-conspirators?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gun murder rate per gun ownership rate is still vanishingly low in Vermont and most of the Rocky Mountain states, despite high rates of legal gun ownership

That's a very racist thing to point out. We all know that Vermont is one of the whitest states. [1] [1] https://www.vpr.org/post/why-vermont-so-overwhelmingly-white...

Huh. I didn't know the Rocky Mountain states were overwhelmingly white, either.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#48

dead people is... the worst... arguing that we should give up freedom is bad... what, do we do here?

Rights are more important than lives. The United States has spent the lives hundreds of thousands of soldiers in defense of those rights. We should no more surrender those rights to fear and alarmism than we would surrender them to a foreign invader.

I agree.

But we aren't just surrendering our rights to fear and alarmism.

We are surrendering our rights to authoritarians (and they are bi-partisan, by the way).

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#49
> Attorney General William Barr said in a speech last month that encrypted messaging services allow "criminals to operate with impunity." The cost of encryption is “ultimately measured in a mounting number of victims — men, women and children who are the victims of crimes, crimes that could have been prevented if law enforcement had been given lawful access to encrypted evidence,"

This disgraceful, emotionally manipulative statement is an obvious lie. Police/FBI/etc have have access to far more information about criminals than any point in history. The average person (criminals included) leaves behind an incredible amount of "digital exhaust". They should be able to build a complete pattern-of-life easily with 3rd party data (e.g. ad tracking), various side channels, and the massive amount of metadata[1] recorded every time criminals used their phone.

Of course, using all of that data to find a criminal requires actual detective work specific to each case. Encryption (especially on a phone examined after a crime) isn't preventing law enforcement from investigating crimes; it is, however, harder to automate. This anti-encryption argument is really about automated mass surveillance, not finding specific criminals.

[1] "We kill people based on metadata" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdQiz0Vavmc

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#50
post #49

> Attorney General William Barr said in a speech last month that encrypted messaging services allow "criminals to operate with impunity." The cost of encryption is “ultimately measured in a mounting number of victims — men, women and children who are the victims of crimes, crimes that could have been prevented if law enforcement had been given lawful access to encrypted evidence," This disgraceful, emotionally manipu…

It isn’t just detective work, it is personnel with the skills to identify and pursue likely evidence.

Digital forensics is way outside typical leo training and believe it or not you can make a lot more money in the private sector with IT training.

Local, state and federal case loads get backlogged behind, leaving the highest priority cases to get staffed.

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