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FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

thehill.com

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Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#31

Post by xkcd-sucks »

bluthru wrote: post #15
willis936 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that it's harder to make an institution that has the power to access secured devices behave than it is to change society to have fewer mass murderers. To quote the onion: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

It didn't used to regularly happen, despite the high availability of guns.

Gun murder rate per gun ownership rate is still vanishingly low in Vermont and most of the Rocky Mountain states, despite high rates of legal gun ownership

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#32

Post by AmphibianTree »

devoply wrote: post #13
wellyeah wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not alright. I'm sick of giving up freedoms every time some violent psycho/group of psychos decided to commit more violence.

Other than all the other psychos who kill a lot more people but are considered legitimate in their doings... We need more access to their information, drug companies making opiates that kill tens of thousands, various other corporations, various world leaders... etc. If we can tolerate them, then we can tolerate your run of the mill psycho doing things now and then and usually immediately being stopped from doing any…

Please try to use a different example. I have CRPS, the most painful disease known to man, and have not been prescribed any analgesics two years in because of fear around opioids. You might think you’re excluding my ilk when examples like this are used but you’re not in practice...Just trading tragedy you know for tragedy I hope you never learn about. Almost exactly like the freedom from unreasonable searches. Ty

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#33

Post by c0nducktr »

CalChris wrote: post #23
javert wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom is more important.

Is your definition of freedom not being able to access the phone of a dead gunman?

What do you think the FBI is going to push for, to solve this problem of theirs?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#34

Post by matthew-wegner »

docbrown wrote: post #24

I want to know what changed between 2016, when the FBI bought a tool to hack the San Bernardino shooters iPhone[1] for $900,000[2] and now — with presumably an up-to-date iPhone running 2019 iOS — that forced them to come to this conclusion. 1: https://www.engadget.com/2016/04/07/fbi-iphone-third-party-t... 2: https://www.engadget.com/2017/05/08/fbi-paid-900000-to-unloc...

That was an iPhone 5C, which did not have a Secure Enclave. Apparently it is/was easier to image the device to brute force passcode attempts at high speed.

There are technical articles out there explaining it in more detail. On my phone now or would paste some URLs.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#35

Post by kburman »

docbrown wrote: post #24

I want to know what changed between 2016, when the FBI bought a tool to hack the San Bernardino shooters iPhone[1] for $900,000[2] and now — with presumably an up-to-date iPhone running 2019 iOS — that forced them to come to this conclusion. 1: https://www.engadget.com/2016/04/07/fbi-iphone-third-party-t... 2: https://www.engadget.com/2017/05/08/fbi-paid-900000-to-unloc...

It looks like they are trying to take advantage of the situation and force apple to release a tool for fbi to break in.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#36

Post by pravda »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #31
bluthru wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't used to regularly happen, despite the high availability of guns.

Gun murder rate per gun ownership rate is still vanishingly low in Vermont and most of the Rocky Mountain states, despite high rates of legal gun ownership

That's a very racist thing to point out. We all know that Vermont is one of the whitest states. [1]

[1] https://www.vpr.org/post/why-vermont-so-overwhelmingly-white...

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#37

Post by mikeash »

berndi wrote: post #30

Does that even make sense from a technical perspective? They are talking about a PIN code to unlock the phone to access the data on the phone. Could they not just remove the memory chip and access it directly? Even if the data on it is encrypted using a 6-digit PIN, brute-forcing that should be a trivial task.

If it’s an iPhone, the data is encrypted with a key derived from the PIN and a random key that is baked into the phone’s CPU. The CPU has instructions for encrypting and decrypting with this secret key but no instruction for reading the key directly. Short of decapping the chip and going in with an electron microscope to figure out what this key is, your only option is to brute force on the phone’s own CPU. But that CPU won’t run software that isn’t signed by the manufacturer, and that software imposes ever-increasing timeouts when unlock attempts fail.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#38

Post by Zhenya »

“ultimately measured in a mounting number of victims — men, women and children who are the victims of crimes, crimes that could have been prevented if law enforcement had been given lawful access to encrypted evidence,"

I don't understand this. How would getting into his phone post facto stop the shooting? Do they have a time machine?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#39

Post by meowface »

kburman wrote: post #35
docbrown wrote: post #24

I want to know what changed between 2016, when the FBI bought a tool to hack the San Bernardino shooters iPhone[1] for $900,000[2] and now — with presumably an up-to-date iPhone running 2019 iOS — that forced them to come to this conclusion. 1: https://www.engadget.com/2016/04/07/fbi-iphone-third-party-t... 2: https://www.engadget.com/2017/05/08/fbi-paid-900000-to-unloc...

It looks like they are trying to take advantage of the situation and force apple to release a tool for fbi to break in.

Could also be that both are true. Maybe they really can't get in and they also want to take advantage of the opportunity.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#40

Post by mikeash »

ericlewis wrote: post #2

dead people is... the worst... arguing that we should give up freedom is bad... what, do we do here?

I don’t think there’s much of a dilemma here. There’s little reason to think that requiring backdoors in encrypted devices would reduce killings.
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