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Old Paris Is No More

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91–100 of 107 posts

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#91
post #25

One difference between Haussmann and others is that his buildings turned out to create one of the most beautiful cities in the world. In contrast, 20's century urbanism projects - even on a smaller scale - are almost always considered a failure ex post. In Paris itself, walk yourself through the Les Olympiades area, from Tolbiac down to Porte d'Italie, if you like an impressive testament to that fact. Some other favo…

This is unrelated to the topic, but your comment is a good occasion to learn more about what seems to me to be weird (grammatical) article usages by English speakers. Why did you call it _Les_ Olympiades, and not Olympiades (no article) or _the_ Olympiades (article in English), or _les_ Olympiades (no capitalization of the article) ? For Porte d'Italie, you did not add any article, i.e. Porte d'Italie and not _La_ Po…

I'd say the same reason the Spanish Wikipedia article for Alhambra uses La in front of Alhambra even though Al is the article in Arabic.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra

Native speakers usualllly ignore the articles from another language unless there was a cultural reason not to. It also just sounds better to my native ear.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#92
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By whom? By those who live in them and by those that visit them. Those who design them and those who write design critiques don't matter at all, and should not even have a voice (at least not one anybody should care about). The best buildings, people take pride living in, and coming from abroad to admire, were built that people we don't even know their name, many even designed and built by craftsmen (as opposed to…

Is it because of the structural complexity of individual buildings (e.g. kitsch ornamentation) or could it be just the color and texture (e.g. people hating flat grey walls)? A painted and decorated facade could change the exterior impression completely. The problem is more the large scale uniformity and a lack of variance, like housing complexes that all look the same, not individual buildings. Here's an extreme kit…

At a high level, people enjoy "information" and tune out areas that don't have any. It doesn't have to be useful information - a blank brick wall is more interesting than a blank concrete wall, and older hand-laid bricks with more variation and mortar thickness is more interesting still. Small modifications on a repetition (e.g. https://www.curbed.com/2016/6/2/11833698/brownstone-greyston...) add a sense of life, even if it's in the window screens, handrails, landscaping, etc. Central Paris is full of 5-7 story buildings with stone facades and Juliet balconies, but they're all different enough that it's interesting to walk block after block.

It matters what scale you experience it - you can notice cool individual trees when you're hiking, but not when you're driving. As more travel became motorized vs pedestrian/horse, there was less and less reason to prioritize street-level beauty. Also, cars opened up so much land that there was less redevelopment, so a lot of buildings are the first buildings ever built on that site.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#93
post #25

One difference between Haussmann and others is that his buildings turned out to create one of the most beautiful cities in the world. In contrast, 20's century urbanism projects - even on a smaller scale - are almost always considered a failure ex post. In Paris itself, walk yourself through the Les Olympiades area, from Tolbiac down to Porte d'Italie, if you like an impressive testament to that fact. Some other favo…

[deleted]

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#94
I love Paris, but just like Barcelona, their wide boulevards can be off-putting sometimes and their more cozy, narrow-street, neighborhoods tend to be tourist traps. Montmartre and Borne come to mind, both gorgeous but crowded with visitors and defaced by postcard stands.

Barcelona in particular went through its own Haussmann-style revamps throughout the years, in the XIX century but also for the 1992 Olympics, giving its current and impressive urban layout. [1]

But the thing is I fell in love with Madrid. Its narrow streets downtown, some of them eerie mazes, make living here quite the authentic and unique urban experience.

[1] https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/8/18266760...

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#95
When I visited Paris, I could see the Arc de Triomphe from the Louvre and thought I would just walk there. After all the walking I'd already done I gave up and took the Metro the last two stops.

My sense of distance was thrown off by how monstrously huge the Arc is. I don't know where they take the pictures of it from, but standing across the street from it I had to just about stand on my head to get the whole thing into frame on my camera.

And as big as the Arc is, the Napoleonic Louvre is bigger (And, I might add, covered with his initial, like a child marking his belongings). And they additions were made in such a way that from the outside it looks five times bigger than it is. There's a certain element of shock and awe going on here.

The only thing I've seen on a similar scale is the Washington Monument, and you understand why all the pictures of the Lincoln statue make it look like it's immediately behind the pillars. It is not. It's on the far end of a large room, also too big to get into frame. It's just so big that it destroys perspective.

To people confronted with this for the first time, I can see how they might wonder why they didn't stop at a smaller monument. In an era without high rises, there's a bit of grotesquery about the scale of these things. They were paid for on the backs of the lower class. I'm sure it was a very concrete image of the slide back into monarchy.

The only thing I've seen on a similar scale in the US, aside from nature, is the Lincoln Memorial. Seeing the monument, you understand why all the pictures of the Lincoln statue make it look like it's immediately behind the pillars. It is not. It's on the far end of a large room, also too big to get into frame. It's just so big that it destroys perspective.

Now, in an era of high rise apartments, the ridiculous proportions prevent these buildings from simply being swallowed in a sea of truly mundane buildings of comparable size. And that is probably why these places have such a tourist draw even today.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#96
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? Because I am not French and I just wrote very thoughtlessly. Sorry, no further reasoning behind it.

I see. Still, this is quite common. For instance the English Wikipedia article [0] use the "random French capitalized article" ("Though the proportions are more modest, _Les_ Olympiades are designed similarly to the esplanade of _La_ Défense.", emphasis mine) but not the French Wikipedia 0article [1], which uses "normal" (to me) grammatical articles. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Olympiades [1] https://fr.wik…

It's pretty typical to capitalize articles in English if those articles are part of a proper noun (esp. at the beginning of the term). So it seems likely that the article is seen as part of the name of the place. I'd guess there's a similar phenomenon with plurality in proper nouns.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#97
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived next to it for a number of years and often visited friends who lived there. I’m very familiar with it and the problems it has. The idea of these concrete enclosed blocks of land being havens for crime and gangs is hardly controversial. This isn’t the open walkable streets of some nice European city or even downtown Toronto. It’s isolated and poorly maintained. Basically what people have come to expect from ci…

I don't think they're disputing that it's crime-ridden, just that it's crime-ridden because police cars can't get in.

That's not the only reason why but it's a big one. It's about visual protection with lots of narrow dark alleys and enclosed spaces connecting to endless stairwells. Making surveillance far more difficult and easy for people to disappear into it the minute a watcher sees police enter.

Don't underestimate just how lazy and safety obsessed Cops, so they'd need a partner to go with them to enter on foot.

Police do bike through once in a while when it's summer, usually in groups of 4-6 but Toronto isn't always accessible by bike during winter. Plus I rarely saw bike cops at night like you do cars cruising around.

These isolated places with towering buildings, tons of concrete, and only roads deep outside on the edges creates an excellent environment for shootings, robberies, and drug dealing to take place.

Either way it increases the effort it takes and almost all of them have full time security on site as the problems are constant.

Down the road there are 3 large buildings one by one lined on a major road which are equally in disrepair and impoverished, and they dont have people constantly hanging out side against the walls next to rear stairwell entrances, while everyone else is scared to go there at night. The keep their business inside or out of view.

There's a hundred examples of these places that are set up like this in NYC and Chicago.

Cabrini Green had the same issue with too many enclosed areas where people hung around constantly. The design was counter to open and friendly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabrini%E2%80%93Green_Homes?ol...

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#99
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they're disputing that it's crime-ridden, just that it's crime-ridden because police cars can't get in.

That's not the only reason why but it's a big one. It's about visual protection with lots of narrow dark alleys and enclosed spaces connecting to endless stairwells. Making surveillance far more difficult and easy for people to disappear into it the minute a watcher sees police enter. Don't underestimate just how lazy and safety obsessed Cops, so they'd need a partner to go with them to enter on foot. Police do bike…

Here in Germany we have a similar issue in some of these project areas.

They are called "Angsträume", translation is "spaces of fear". Dark, secluded spaces, staircases and so forth, where people feel unsafe.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#100
post #89

> There was no property-owning democracy. Everyone was dependent on the will of the landowners and the owners of the houses in Paris. In that particular context, he really took on the most powerful social group at that time, trying to offer a solution to urban problems As someone who has had to rent in the horrible Paris market, I don't see how everyone being "dependent on the will of the landowners and the owners of…

Where else have you rented? Paris is a bit expensive but apart from that the rental market works fine. I wouldn't say the same of Stockholm, Dublin or San Francisco

> Where else have you rented?

I didn't come here for a who-is-more-cosmopolitan dick-waving contest. But if you did, do feel free to entertain us with your personal horror stories from Stockholm, Dublin, and San Francisco.

> Paris is a bit expensive but apart from that the rental market works fine.

Landlords require you to bring a CV and a work contract and proof of income, which must be 3x the rent, otherwise you must bring documentation from a guarantor who does have that much and who is resident in France. You must also bring receipts proving that you paid your rent on time the last three months. (Sure, this is not a big deal per se, except that other countries don't even have this kind of receipt, or you might be coming from some arrangement where you did not (officially) pay rent.) Don't you also have to bring a valid renter's insurance policy? There was almost certainly other stuff I forgot; I remember seeing people at viewings with bunches of paper centimeters thick. Some of this is difficult (read: impossible) for someone just moving to France.

If you don't have these documents, they could be nice and welcoming and try to accommodate you. Or they could just pick one of the 20 people who showed up to the same viewing and who did bring 100 pages of crap. In my limited experience, they do the latter. Overall, "fine" isn't the word I'd choose to describe this.

> I wouldn't say the same of Stockholm, Dublin or San Francisco

"X isn't quite as shitty as San Francisco" is faint praise indeed.

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