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Old Paris Is No More

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Re: Old Paris Is No More

#81

Post by PhasmaFelis »

dmix wrote: post #57
tom_mellior wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drug dealers and petty crime thrived because there was poor access for police vehicles and other types of law enforcement Interesting take, not supported by the Wikipedia article. Don't Canadian police have access to bikes, motorcycles, or (gasp) horses that might access areas where cars can't go? What the Wikipedia article does say is this: "The apartments lacked appeal though, poorly constructed, and with a lack…

I lived next to it for a number of years and often visited friends who lived there. I’m very familiar with it and the problems it has. The idea of these concrete enclosed blocks of land being havens for crime and gangs is hardly controversial. This isn’t the open walkable streets of some nice European city or even downtown Toronto. It’s isolated and poorly maintained. Basically what people have come to expect from ci…

I don't think they're disputing that it's crime-ridden, just that it's crime-ridden because police cars can't get in.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#82

Post by grumpydba »

zwaps wrote: post #74
ticktacktock2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is capitalized only when it is the beginning of a sentence, or for the elementary school of the same name. The article behaves "normally" (eg switches to aux Olympiades when needed) while the English article stick to Les Olympiades with a capitalized "Les". Interestingly, both articles first words are "Les Olympiades", but: * "Les" is in bold in the English one, as if it was part of the name, while only "…

Ah now I get what you are saying. Okay so remember this was all subconcious, but I think I added the articles since "Les Olympiades" seems like a whole name. Just "Olympiades" makes less sense since that could have different meanings, like people perhaps. In that sense, I considered "Les" as part of the name. Therefore, it is capitalized. Porte d'Italy on the other hand is clear, there's only one interpretation, and…

Just like you would say 'les miserables' or 'le big mac'

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#83

Post by grumpydba »

hrktb wrote: post #21
cm2187 wrote: post #2

Contrary to what the article says, Haussmann isn’t really a controversial figure in France and much of what makes Paris one of the most beautiful and visited cities in the world is thanks to the architecture he imposed, something that few, if any, modern urbanist can claim.

Would it be self-fulfilling if we disagreed on him being controversial ? Perhaps an aspect of it Parisian's Paris and tourist's Paris is fundamentally different, and the current leadership is more or less trying to undo a lot of what Haussman stood for to make Paris friendlier to live for Parisians. Whole blocks are closed cars to bring back shops and 'village' like environment. Modern residential neighbourhoods are…

> Perhaps an aspect of it Parisian's Paris and tourist's Paris is fundamentally different, and the current leadership is more or less trying to undo a lot of what Haussman stood for to make Paris friendlier to live for Parisians. Whole blocks are closed cars to bring back shops and 'village' like environment.

Yes Haussman was definitely wrong when he planned a city for cars. More seriously just check paintings or videos of Paris before the expansion of individual cars. Read books. It was highly walkable.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#84

Post by kmlx »

masklinn wrote: post #13
AdrianB1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing Paris as it is now and comparing to the photographs in the article I am happy that cleanup was performed. The old architecture was maybe interesting to some extent, but very close to a huge slum.

Note that you can also clean things up without tearing it down entirely. Many cities have retained historical centers in that style without keeping the "slum" bits, and it does makes for more interesting walking around than huge boulevards and avenues. There's an architectural movement to come back to these more human-sized city designs too: smaller streets, more mixed use, less emphasis on large (and motorised) tran…

see brussels for a counter-example. tore down everything, and became of laughing stock for urbanists, and a sad place to live in for the rest of us.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#85

Post by thatfrenchguy »

zwaps wrote: post #25

One difference between Haussmann and others is that his buildings turned out to create one of the most beautiful cities in the world. In contrast, 20's century urbanism projects - even on a smaller scale - are almost always considered a failure ex post. In Paris itself, walk yourself through the Les Olympiades area, from Tolbiac down to Porte d'Italie, if you like an impressive testament to that fact. Some other favo…

> I wonder if there are contemporary developments that will, some day, be considered truly beautiful.

Do we still build buildings that will withstand the times to just get to our great-grandchildren though ? Or are we just biased because only the good ones remain from the 19 century ?

(The neighborhood around Olympiades is from the 60s though).

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#86

Post by kmlx »

rb808 wrote: post #55

Its still amazing to me how bad modern construction is. Paris was build with no electricity, no cars/trucks, no computers, no massive cranes and they can build a city that is more beautiful than any modern city. Even in the US pre-war apartment buildings are more solid, higher ceilings and more ornate than anything built in the last 50 years.

“a city that is more beautiful than any modern city” to each his own. i would rather live in a modern flat in La Defanse than in the centre of Paris. i feel those long and wide boulevards are not really meant for humans, and those old buildings have horrible flats. give me some narrow and winding London roads any time of day. preferably full of modern skyscrapers.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#87

Post by unreal37 »

I was really hoping this article would have been about how Paris of 2019 has lost some of it's charm compared to Paris of 2008 and before. Need to find an article about that.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#88

Post by ghaff »

vinceguidry wrote: post #50
ticktacktock2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unrelated to the topic, but your comment is a good occasion to learn more about what seems to me to be weird (grammatical) article usages by English speakers. Why did you call it _Les_ Olympiades, and not Olympiades (no article) or _the_ Olympiades (article in English), or _les_ Olympiades (no capitalization of the article) ? For Porte d'Italie, you did not add any article, i.e. Porte d'Italie and not _La_ Po…

I think this comes down to the fact that English speakers don't consider their own articles very much because they're always the same. We don't have to put any effort into picking one, so selection is unconscious and automatic. I recall Ukrainians objecting to the English-speaking world's fixation on calling their country "the Ukraine" instead of just "Ukraine." The propensity to just append articles to nouns to faci…

>I think this comes down to the fact that English speakers don't consider their own articles very much because they're always the same.

It's a little bit like how native English speakers tend to regard accent marks as largely optional decoration.

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#89

Post by mijamo »

tom_mellior wrote: post #26

> There was no property-owning democracy. Everyone was dependent on the will of the landowners and the owners of the houses in Paris. In that particular context, he really took on the most powerful social group at that time, trying to offer a solution to urban problems As someone who has had to rent in the horrible Paris market, I don't see how everyone being "dependent on the will of the landowners and the owners of…

Where else have you rented? Paris is a bit expensive but apart from that the rental market works fine. I wouldn't say the same of Stockholm, Dublin or San Francisco

Re: Old Paris Is No More

#90

Post by deltron3030 »

coldtea wrote: post #63
deltron3030 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By whom? It's a matter of perspective. If you're into architecture and design you'll care more about the practicality and function of the building than it's exterior appearance. A sterile exterior then becomes an indicator that the budget went into what matters most. In my personal opinion, the exterior of buildings (excluding windows) should all be considered public space, they should be open for decoration, like st…

> By whom? By those who live in them and by those that visit them. Those who design them and those who write design critiques don't matter at all, and should not even have a voice (at least not one anybody should care about). The best buildings, people take pride living in, and coming from abroad to admire, were built that people we don't even know their name, many even designed and built by craftsmen (as opposed to…

Is it because of the structural complexity of individual buildings (e.g. kitsch ornamentation) or could it be just the color and texture (e.g. people hating flat grey walls)?

A painted and decorated facade could change the exterior impression completely.

The problem is more the large scale uniformity and a lack of variance, like housing complexes that all look the same, not individual buildings.

Here's an extreme kitsch example: https://www.dezeen.com/2019/01/18/drone-abandoned-turkish-ch...

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