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Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

theoutline.com

141–150 of 153 posts

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The early days of the drug war, the ban on pot, was very much a racial thing. There were "scientific" studies and political speeches focusing on how dangerous it would make the negro population, how black men high on pot would be raping white women. Generations later, the crackdown on crack cocaine, as opposed to the more expensive normal cocaine, also broke down along racial lines. The drug wars in other countries,…

In how many African countries, Middle Eastern, or Asian countries is marijuana legal? Race has little to do with the criminalization of such drugs, as evidenced by the answer to the above question.

The international criminalization was driven in large part by Western pressure (and sometimes directly a remnant of Western colonialism).

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#142
“The department seems to be assigning some blame to the victims rather than assessing its own inability to bring the violence under control.”

How do you do any kind of fair analysis without just presenting data? If the cops used inflammatory language, then shame on them. But if it was just numbers, it's hard to argue against clean data.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In how many African countries, Middle Eastern, or Asian countries is marijuana legal? Race has little to do with the criminalization of such drugs, as evidenced by the answer to the above question.

The international criminalization was driven in large part by Western pressure (and sometimes directly a remnant of Western colonialism).

Ah yes, the United States force countries to criminalize drugs as a part of its racist master plan to keep down the black man.

(I wonder what the Chinese think of your claim that the pressures of western colonialism is why drugs are illegal? Thank goodness the British forced China to criminalize opium...)

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a vicious cycle. Many countries with less "crime" require less police, therefore they can be more selective about the people they hire and spend more money to train them. In the US, policing and prison are huge industries, and at a certain point there are not enough qualified individuals to go around. Now imagine the TSA and Border patrol and many other government security institutions. So many cast offs…

There aren’t enough qualified candidates because they literally are not interested in hiring people that can think for themselves rather than blindly follow orders and protocol. I know how petty this statement sounds, and you’re probably thinking “ok there, someone has an axe to grind or needs to learn some nuance,” but read this news article about what (legally!) disqualifies a candidate from being hired as an offic…

No, they just want to save money on training by avoiding high turnover.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#145
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other places have a war on drugs, or have regulations about lemonade stands, and they don't have the pathologically awful policing that the US has. The US is extraordinarily violent. That's where you need to start: why is violence so common and acceptable in the US?

I never understood why either. For some reason American music tastes (hip-hop) often glorify greed, crime, and lawnessness and our culture does relatively little to call this behavior out. It's actually NORMAL in american culture to be blase about music that is openly violent, racist, and sexist. It really is indicative of a sick society. Most people that I approach the subject about is "yeah, so what?"

Well, at least they bleep the F-word. Other countries don't do that, but they do restrain the amount of violence on TV and look where THAT got them.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Marihuana influences Negroes to look at white people in the eye, step on white men's shadows and look at a white woman twice." This one is the original marihuana legislation, predating Nixon's war on drugs, right? > "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either a…

> Adverse impact, problematic enough, does not imply something was made with racist intent. It shows that the intent continues to be racist. This disparity is ongoing, not historical; if it's truly not racist, why not bring the amount of possession charges in line with usage?

Incidental arrests arise from higher police presence in minority’s neighborhoods due to higher instances of major crime in those neighborhoods.

If I go fishing for redfish I’m going to end up catching a lot more saltwater fish incidentally. Doesn’t mean I hate freshwater fish, that just means in not fishing in an area where I’m going to find many freshwater fish.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#147
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Threatening the public is not victimless. Not sure where folks are coming up with that. I can fire a gun at a crowd, and if it doesn't hit anybody, its 'victimless'. Not a crime?

so lets follow that logic... you are driving a car down the street and because you could screw up and hit me you are attempting murder and should be charged ? You are so far into the wrong here its sad... not only sad but the fact you cant see it is scary for the future of this nation

Reckless driving is a crime, yes.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#148
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other places have a war on drugs, or have regulations about lemonade stands, and they don't have the pathologically awful policing that the US has. The US is extraordinarily violent. That's where you need to start: why is violence so common and acceptable in the US?

The US is a violent place even without guns. The murder rates for non-gun violence are still astronomical compared to other developed countries. It's likely always been violent place, so how does that change?

Now just hold on a second. Show your work, please. I don't think of the US overall as having much violence. I face nearly no risk of home invasion, mugging, or anything, really, and that is true for the vast majority of Americans.

Let's be honest: US murder rates are high because of one particular demographic of people involved in particular criminal enterprises. Drug war or no, that is the reality. There are neighborhoods in the nearby cities I don't go near because of the possibility of becoming involved in a violent encounter, probably only due to my being white in a non-white area. Meanwhile, I can go pretty much anywhere else in the US and never have a concern. Why is that?

Mass shootings? Please. They are vanishingly low on the probability of dying chart. I worry more about crossing the street. Those are sad events. So are car crashes, plane crashes, E Coli outbreaks, cancer, heart disease, etc.

The worst thing is how "gun violence" is counted separately and those figures includes things like suicides and police shootings of people in the act of committing felony crimes. Those statistics are ginned to the max in order to mislead the public in support of additional civil disarmament. The implications of that are speculative, but I would say it is so that the next round of subjugation and abuse of the public can take place under the color of law without the threat of push back to those doing the pushing.

If you look at violent crimes in European countries, there is more of it there but they only report crimes once the case has been cleared. No conclusion=no crime mentioned. It is a gigantic lie. If European nations are so safe, how come the cops are nearly always paired with soldiers armed with rifles? You see this everywhere across Europe, in fact. In all those gun-free paradises over there, what threat is on their minds? Or is that just a big show to keep the public in fear?

As I have noted, if you aren't involved in criminal activities, your chances of being acted upon violently in the US are very low.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#149
post #136
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you are saying a specific group of people get to define acceptable violence. This is insane... who defines that group ? Are all govts legitimate ? Do all govts get to define violence ? There is no ethical violence or all violence is ethical because your reasons arent more valid than someone elses

I am not saying that. I'm saying that considering the government to act only violently is a gross mischaracterization of reality such that even if you define things such that it is technically true, it is not a useful position to take. My government has never forced me to do anything with a threat of violence -- I have been threatened with different manners of obvious inconvenience, but if that is no more acceptable…

So taxes are purely voluntary in your country? Must be nice!

EVERYTHING, absolutely EVERYTHING a government "asks" of you comes with the implicit threat of violence for those who do not comply. There is only one tool in the box.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#150
post #147
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so lets follow that logic... you are driving a car down the street and because you could screw up and hit me you are attempting murder and should be charged ? You are so far into the wrong here its sad... not only sad but the fact you cant see it is scary for the future of this nation

Reckless driving is a crime, yes.

Elements of a crime....

Legality (must be a law) ... Actus reus (Human conduct) ... Causation (human conduct must cause harm) ... Harm (to some other/thing) ... Concurrence (State of Mind and Human Conduct) ... Mens Rea (State of Mind; "guilty mind") ... Punishment.

Without a victim you have no crime

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