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Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

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Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#71

Post by steveeq1 »

DanBC wrote: post #32
dcolkitt wrote: post #9

> Cooperating with law enforcement is often morally and practically unthinkable for the city’s most vulnerable The article has a really big blind spot, in that it fails to mention the Drug War even a single time. If you want to understand why America's police act like an occupying army- the militarization of weapons and approaches, the festering hostility between the police and the policed, the heavy-handed suspicion…

Other places have a war on drugs, or have regulations about lemonade stands, and they don't have the pathologically awful policing that the US has. The US is extraordinarily violent. That's where you need to start: why is violence so common and acceptable in the US?

I never understood why either. For some reason American music tastes (hip-hop) often glorify greed, crime, and lawnessness and our culture does relatively little to call this behavior out. It's actually NORMAL in american culture to be blase about music that is openly violent, racist, and sexist. It really is indicative of a sick society. Most people that I approach the subject about is "yeah, so what?"

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#72

Post by JoeAltmaier »

geggam wrote: post #48
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speeding. Public intoxication. Keeping an attractive nuisance.

All victimless crimes. Oddly enough in AZ you are supposed to have a victim for a crime yet you can be charged with criminal speeding and there be no victim.

Threatening the public is not victimless. Not sure where folks are coming up with that. I can fire a gun at a crowd, and if it doesn't hit anybody, its 'victimless'. Not a crime?

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#73

Post by steveeq1 »

eledumb wrote: post #16

I'm a white male, near 1% income and I live in a small town about 30 miles outside a major U.S. city and I'm terrified of the police. We've stopped holding the police accountable for their actions and it's out of control. Local government, state government, prosecutors and most of all the Unions are to blame. Yeah, the Union, I'm the son of a Union executive and Unions have lost their way. The Union is supposed to pr…

The statistics don't support your concern: https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/screen-shot-20...

The "unarmed black man shot and killed by police" is heavily pushed by media companies because, well, its an emotional issue that gets ratings, sells newspapers, and gets clicks. Same thing with "terrorist threats", shark bites, and airline crashes. People view it because it's dramatic and it sticks in your head more because of it.

This bias is called "availability bias" and it causes people to see the problem as much greater than it actually is.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#74

Post by AQuantized »

rjf72 wrote: post #22
dcolkitt wrote: post #9

> Cooperating with law enforcement is often morally and practically unthinkable for the city’s most vulnerable The article has a really big blind spot, in that it fails to mention the Drug War even a single time. If you want to understand why America's police act like an occupying army- the militarization of weapons and approaches, the festering hostility between the police and the policed, the heavy-handed suspicion…

What you're saying is true but only in a society where you simply allow all drugs. Ideologically I am of this inclining since I don't think the government has a right to determine what people should or should not be able to put in their own body, but at the same time I also think this is a path that is detrimental for society. A few factors you don't hit on: - many drugs are addictive and this can lead to addicts tur…

It's almost certain that the decriminalization or legalization of all drugs would be a massive boon for society.

As practical examples such as Portugal show, it generally leads to a significant drop in both drug use and the detrimental factors associated with it. More police time and money can be spent on real crimes, and jails are free from many non violent offenders.

The last last point is a particularly significant benefit for the USA as the justice system has such an irrational focus on punishment over rehabilitation, so most prisons serve more as criminal training camps.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#75

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

danmaz74 wrote: post #63
DoreenMichele wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internationally, countries that export illicit drugs are countries that have a shortage of legal exports and desperately need a cash income. I think if you want to talk about The Drug War in the US, you need to talk about institutional racism and its roots in a history of slavery. There are myriad ways in which the African American community has been victimized in the US and it's all interrelated. You can't really is…

I'm curious about this link between racism and drugs. When I was growing up in Italy, during the 80s, drugs were a pretty big issue, and we had our own "war on drugs", but at the time there were basically no black people here, so it couldn't be linked to race.

From the Republican horse's mouth:

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Ehrlichman

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#76

Post by overthemoon »

steveeq1 wrote: post #73
eledumb wrote: post #16

I'm a white male, near 1% income and I live in a small town about 30 miles outside a major U.S. city and I'm terrified of the police. We've stopped holding the police accountable for their actions and it's out of control. Local government, state government, prosecutors and most of all the Unions are to blame. Yeah, the Union, I'm the son of a Union executive and Unions have lost their way. The Union is supposed to pr…

The statistics don't support your concern: https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/screen-shot-20... The "unarmed black man shot and killed by police" is heavily pushed by media companies because, well, its an emotional issue that gets ratings, sells newspapers, and gets clicks. Same thing with "terrorist threats", shark bites, and airline crashes. People view it because it's dramatic and it sticks in your head…

A meme shared by Trump on Twitter isn't a remotely worthwhile source.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#77

Post by steveeq1 »

overthemoon wrote: post #76
steveeq1 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statistics don't support your concern: https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/screen-shot-20... The "unarmed black man shot and killed by police" is heavily pushed by media companies because, well, its an emotional issue that gets ratings, sells newspapers, and gets clicks. Same thing with "terrorist threats", shark bites, and airline crashes. People view it because it's dramatic and it sticks in your head…

A meme shared by Trump on Twitter isn't a remotely worthwhile source.

It's sourced.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#78

Post by overthemoon »

steveeq1 wrote: post #77
overthemoon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A meme shared by Trump on Twitter isn't a remotely worthwhile source.

It's sourced.

It's bullshit.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump-retweets-bogus-crime...

Starting with the most obvious point, the Crime Statistics Bureau of San Francisco doesn't exist.

Re: Victims are often criminals, and that is a paradox American policing can’t solve

#80

Post by drawnwren »

k_sze wrote: post #64
drawnwren wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this line of reasoning as well. Drug trafficking is punishable by death in Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, and Indonesia. Other East Asian countries _highly_ criminalize drugs and have significantly lower crime rates along with significantly higher rates of police reporting.

Nope, not Hong Kong. HK hasn’t had death penalty for anything for a loooong time.

Whoops, HK is only life in prison. Taiwan is death.
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