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8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lost good friends to 4chan/8chan. They were obsessed. At first it was cat pictures and memes, but it went way downhill from there. I've watched those sites cause the transition from normal, interesting, reasonable, open minded, intelligent, happy human beings, to horrible inexcusable pieces of shit who I never want to have anything to do with ever again. It's not just that they inspire a few shooters and mass mu…

Just look at the absurdity of Qanon. This troll gone long [1] has affected real people and real relationships [2]. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/how-three-conspiracy-... [2] https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a22664244/qanon-boyfri...

I recently passed several qanon billboards along major interstate freeway junctions while traveling in the southern USA.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#602

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

I don’t understand how inciting violence is acceptable free speech.

Isn’t that what 8chan did?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#603

We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. What 8chan is doing is exactly the same, minus the Islamist part, yet there's hypocrisy in how they're treated vs e.g. the social media wing of ISIS. These people are trying to kill as many of us as possible. In no way should society accept it. It's simple societal self-defense. Ro…

> We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. Speak for yourself, I would. I've downloaded and distributed ISIS propaganda videos before out of sheer intrigue. Just because someone says something you don't like doesn't mean you should ban it. Of course, this will be downvoted to hell because this is a hot topic at the moment…

I've downloaded

OK

and distributed ISIS propaganda videos

Do elaborate on your motives for and style of distribution.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. I certainly would tolerate those sites. Free speech arguments aside, you can't kill the hydra, but you can severely degrade intelligence operations watching that hydra. Best case the bad guys all end up on sites already being surveilled, worst case they slip under the radar. We h…

And a few months later ISIS died because the lack of easily-spread propaganda destroyed its ability to recruit susceptible idiots to its cause to replace all the soldiers that were being killed. IOW, mission accomplished.

Is that what you honestly think happened?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#606
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm on the same boat as you on this one; I tend to have a pretty libertarian view on free speech, but lately the bizarre rise of hyper-radical idiots on places like 8chan (and even YouTube to a lesser extent) has really made me question these things. It's very easy to shout the mantra of "Free speech!!! OMG!!!" but we gain nothing by acting like there aren't natural consequences to it. By having a liberal fre…

It's tough to make the distinction between acceptable and unacceptable speech on a case-by-case basis. The classic extremist play is to patiently gnaw at the edges of acceptability. Subtle digs at Jews, blacks, Hispanics, muslims or non-muslims (you can insert any group here, really) pave the way for innuendos about their morals, work ethic, intellectual capacity etc. You can gaslight perfectly normal, upstanding cit…

I'd like to think I never went too far with it, and I certainly was never violent or anything, but I got pretty big into the anti-feminist, #GamerGate, and "fight the SJW snowflakes!" crap from the years of ~2013-2016; basically the TLDR for that ending was when Donald Trump was elected I realized I was wrong to hold a lot of these viewpoints, and now it is not a chapter of my life that I am proud of.

I don't think I'm an idiot, and I would like to think that I'm normally a pretty decent human, and yet I was still able to be persuaded by morons on Youtube like Sargon of Akkad and Thunderf00t, and I spread the stupid memes along with most of my friends; I can easily see the alternate universe where I didn't realize I was wrong, and went further down the rabbit hole watching idiots like Stefan Molyneux or something.

I think people like to pretend that they and everyone they care about are immune to propaganda.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#607

This once again goes to show that you can do nothing illegal and still be virtually locked out of the internet. The viewpoint that "it's okay to kick 8chan off the internet" is not consistent with the viewpoint that "the internet should be neutral infrastructure". Take from that what you will. People are doing the "yada yada not entitled to a platform" thing, but the distinction between free speech and having a platf…

There are things that you can say which will make your entire village shun you. True. Always has been. Probably always will be. Our world is now a village. It is a new thing to deal with. So far not many have adjusted well. People who fail to appreciate why their fellow citizens find a website cheering on the murder of groups of outsiders to be shun-worthy, their understanding of humans is woefully incomplete.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm in agreement with Popper's view that societies should tolerate everything except intolerance. It draws a fine line between what's acceptable speech and what is not. And going by it, things like 8chan should get shut down. The line of thought you put forward, by contrast, rubs me in a very wrong way. It was used to justify, depending on the period and country, not allowing people to vote on the basis th…

>Popper's tolerance criteria, by contrast, seems clearcut What is that criteria? Because I can easily see people disagreeing on what is and is not intolerant. Would you agree that saying that a baker in Colorado must make a cake for a gay wedding is intolerant of the baker's belief? Because I'm certain a sizeable proportion of the US population would agree that it is intolerant.

That's not a particularly good example. When you enter into commerce you step out of the personal space freedom of thought. And you do so in ways that may seem arbitrary. That arbitrariness is accepted as the price of entry. At least by most people with realistic expectations.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#609
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you block 8chan, the only thing that it will result in is people will move to more censorship-resistant technologies. You will push people to TOR, distributed P2P, blockchain forums, etc. Which will make even harder to identify them. You can't stop the signal. ThePirateBay proved it many many times. We need to address the sources of the problem, not the symptoms.

Part of the problem is ease of access. Making it harder to get to is good.

It takes 60 seconds to find, download, and install tor. For people that's even less inclined, there are many tor2web gateways.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main issue with this line of reasoning is that it feels largely emotion driven. Even if communities with zero moderation do offer more likely spaces for extremist thoughts to develop and become action, I can't claim I've seen a broad academic consensus that sacrificing current free speech rights would actually solve or otherwise impact the problem in a meaningful way. I don't think communities that turn a blind ey…

Free speech isn't currently threatened here; providers are just exercising their freedom of association. I also think waiting for "academic consensus" to act is not the neutral position it seems. Skepticism in the face of a pressing concern is not neutral, but instead acts to support the status quo. [1] If we don't do something, more people will die. Possibly a lot more people. Academics have documented the dramatic…

> Free speech isn't currently threatened here; providers are just exercising their freedom of association.

This is an empty argument. Literally it can be transposed as saying that not employing people of a certain race is just freedom of association.

I do not dispute your point, it is just that this specific claim is meaningless.

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