This should be a wakeup call for anyone still using cloudflare.
8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
371–380 of 1001 posts
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#372What people (seemingly) fail to realise is that neither Cloudflare is the Internet nor Voxility is a public infrastructure. They are private enterprises which are free to act in however they want with regards to the service they provide as laid out in their contract. That is the danger of centralisation; when they remove their service, it feels as if your rights has been violated because (a) you have been so used to…
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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#373" It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it."
Just like democracy, right?
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#374Didn’t know 8chan hosted their stuff at Voxility, it’s a small world. I’m saying this because Voxility is a Romanian company, I am Romanian, and my company used to also host our stuff at their premises until 3 or 4 years ago. I remember that on one of my visits there (there was always a hard-drive that needed to be handed in person or something like that) I’m 100% sure that I had bumped into what looked to be an FBI…
This wild speculation of yours is based on how the "agent's" pants matched their "snickers" ?
They spoke American English and a couple of days after that there were a couple of news reports about the US authorities having come to Romania in order to catch some Internet bad guys, so after the fact I just put 2 and 2 together. And believe it or not an American person usually stands out when outside of the States (and maybe a few other European Western countries), it’a like porn, difficult to put down in words but you know it when you see it.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#375My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…
Personally I'm in agreement with Popper's view that societies should tolerate everything except intolerance. It draws a fine line between what's acceptable speech and what is not. And going by it, things like 8chan should get shut down.
The line of thought you put forward, by contrast, rubs me in a very wrong way. It was used to justify, depending on the period and country, not allowing people to vote on the basis that they didn't have enough revenue, didn't own enough land, couldn't read and write well enough, etc. Allowing to disenfranchise voters on some arbitrary sophistication basis can and, if history is anything to go by, unfortunately will get abused. It breaks down to: who decides what's sophisticated enough?
Popper's tolerance criteria, by contrast, seems clearcut in a you know it when you see it kind of way.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you block 8chan, the only thing that it will result in is people will move to more censorship-resistant technologies. You will push people to TOR, distributed P2P, blockchain forums, etc. Which will make even harder to identify them. You can't stop the signal. ThePirateBay proved it many many times. We need to address the sources of the problem, not the symptoms.
Part of the problem is ease of access. Making it harder to get to is good.
Nobody in the history of the world has been radicalized because it was easy to access. They were radicalized because something they read resonated with something they experienced. People don't just accidentally turn into mass murderers because they read some pamphlet, a lot has to go wrong.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#377So the campaigns against free speech show results. The wheels are in motion, the dominoes are falling. Funny how here on HN the use of the term "free speech absolutists"/"free speech absolutism" has absolutely skyrocketed for example. So are these the last days of the internet? 4chan is still there, voat too (although barely) - but I don't know how much longer. 100% legal sites are taken offline for absolutely no rea…
Yea. I find it quite ironic that HN of all places is generally speaking supportive of this.
I do think though that the internet is kind of a different game though. I don't think anything can be banned altogether. People will always find a way.
Ultimately we'll just end up creating new anonymous and distributed services where we can talk freely and corporations (lol) and governments can't dictate what is acceptable.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
Put differently: this is why we can't have nice things
The few always screw it up for the rest.
It's also inexpensive to cultivate or hire agent provocateurs to screw it up for the rest. Given the emotion of the situation & conversation, it's a low risk endeavor, as critical thinking is reduced in mass crisis scenarios.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#379We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. What 8chan is doing is exactly the same, minus the Islamist part, yet there's hypocrisy in how they're treated vs e.g. the social media wing of ISIS. These people are trying to kill as many of us as possible. In no way should society accept it. It's simple societal self-defense. Ro…
Lol These aren't exactly organized bands of people funneling in millions of dollars for carrying out actual training and misson planning/execution. They're watering holes where disaffected elements of society hyperbolically play up various happenings. Just take a step back for a moment. We have an increasing population and increasing saturation of that population with streams of data. When something happens, we know…
The "hyperirony" excuse is complete bullshit. It's not redeeming when the defense is that they only support, encourage, and enable terrorism because it's a joke. That would make it more despicable, even. Instead we have incredibly racist and hateful people who don't see themselves that way making excuses. They're still shit humans. You don't murder people and say it was irony as your defense.
Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service
#380My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…
Several of these extremist sites even forbid and censor attempts at calm, level-headed rebuttals to such hatred. They exist solely to propagate bigotry. The dog and pony show from Google and Cloudflare of only stepping in after multiple mass shootings and tons of press coverage tells you all you really need to know about these companies' ethics. They react to sufficiently bad PR, not out of any set of principles, be…
Yes, it proves that they believe in ethical behavior and recognize that "deplatforming" is very dangerous because you never know when your message will fall out of favor. Only when it provably causes violence should action be taken against speech.