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8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#41

Post by piti166 »

hashmap wrote: post #11
gwbas1c wrote: post #5

I'm of the opinion that if we suppress it, it doesn't go away. When it comes back, it's much harder to control. I also firmly believe that everyone has biases and inclinations that are morally wrong. The sooner we learn how to deal with the "good guys" unfair biases, the sooner we can figure out how to deal with the "bad guys" too.

> I'm of the opinion that if we suppress it, it doesn't go away. When it comes back, it's much harder to control. The available evidence says the opposite is true. http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf The way to deal with the "bad guys" is for private businesses to not give them a platform to spew their hate from. And it's up to us to pressure these private businesses to do that.

The study explicitly states, that the problem went away for reddit, but this does not proof that the hate went away, it maybe just left reddit for another platform.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#42

Post by vorpalhex »

not_a_cop75 wrote: post #36
vorpalhex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that help the situation?

Just summing up the paradigm of needing to control the masses by preventing people from doing things that people will inevitably do. You can't stop people from talking. You can stop people from talking publicly. People will break and do harm to others, but having a vehicle to know what that harm might be in advance is invaluable.

Society would be much easier to control if we simply kept all the people in cages and let them out occasionally to work for the good of the people. On the other hand, it wouldn't be much of a society now, would it?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#43

Post by nilkn »

commandlinefan wrote: post #20

I’m old enough to remember when Howard Stern, as quaint as that seems today, was considered one of the greatest threats to civilization and had to be “de-platformed” before he could successfully destroy society - and the reasoning they used against him was _exactly_ the same as this reasoning: “he, himself (8chan, itself) is not going out and doing horrible things, but he’s encouraging people to go out and do horribl…

I'm on the record here defending /r/The_Donald. I'm even on the record saying I didn't think it should be quarantined and that I don't think it should be banned in the future. It takes a lot for me to wonder if something actually should be censored. I certainly wouldn't have been on the side of censoring Howard Stern.

Radicalizing terrorists to such an extent that they actually go through with it -- multiple times -- is extreme enough to make me wonder.

The El Paso shooter's manifesto was posted on 8chan for a reason. The manifesto was written specifically for other potential shooters. It contains tips and advice. It explains the shooter's choice of gear and that he needed to use heat-resistant gloves because one of the guns he used was prone to overheating if fired rapidly. It encourages potential shooters to avoid heavily guarded areas and to avoid engaging with security personnel regardless of how confident they are.

Throughout 8chan, I saw many posts subscribing to the general theory that racial violence has been accepted throughout most of human history and the only people who disapprove constitute a tiny little blip on the grand tapestry. The whole point of this ideology was to encourage people to commit acts of violence by indoctrinating them into the belief system that all their ancestors would not only have approved but would have done it themselves.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#44

Post by cat199 »

Sonnol53 wrote: post #25
yters wrote: post #18

A lot of these mass shooters (and a number of serial killers) quote social Darwinism nonsense as inspiration. I wonder why that ideological portion is not being dealt with more. I hear social Darwinism ideas fairly frequently in everyday conversations with people, like casual lunch conversations.

So what makes them think that they are superior to others and it tips them in conducting mass shootings?

.. not to mention that most mass shooters don't have children and end up shot during the situation..

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#46

Post by yhamv »

vorpalhex wrote: post #34
mrweasel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Facebook host their own servers... well not the only reason, but you could easily make the argument that Facebook is an "Internet hate forum" and should be shut down for failing to police their site.

No, not really, no. Facebook is a media company that has half-assed moderation because it's not profitable to them to be any better about it, and is mostly old ladies posting ancient memes and chain letters.

Just imagine how hard it would be for Facebook to exist if they didn't host their own servers. They would have to be under constant threats of being kicked off from whatever ISP they used because of the content users submit. And also quite obviously the press would be yelling at ISPs for hosting them, same they are doing with 8chan

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#47

Post by jredwards »

davesmith1983 wrote: post #39
hashmap wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm of the opinion that if we suppress it, it doesn't go away. When it comes back, it's much harder to control. The available evidence says the opposite is true. http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf The way to deal with the "bad guys" is for private businesses to not give them a platform to spew their hate from. And it's up to us to pressure these private businesses to do that.

The "bad guys" just went somewhere else. This doesn't fix the problem it just pushed the problem away from reddit. > And it's up to us to pressure these private businesses to do that. No it isn't. I am fed up of something I like being ruined by moral busy bodies such as yourself. My friend and I like the "edgy" jokes because we work in environments where you have to be political correct and I need to let off some ste…

> The problem is that large portions of the population aren't engaged in society at large. The is a huge problem with loneliness, suicide and general lack of meaning to life.

Do you think that this is the root cause of violent islamic extremists as well?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#48

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

I am genuinely upset over this. And that is after CEO pinky swears he will not do it in the future. It will be that much easier to do it now that there is a precedent. I doubt he does not know it.

I think.. I think I will be starting free speech focused entity. Like NRA. Laser focus. No restrictions on free speech of any kind. Ever.

This may be the only thing to prevent US from losing its list of temporary priviledges.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#49

Post by atonse »

Alex3917 wrote: post #30

IMHO this reflects poorly on CloudFlare. The supreme court has ruled time and time again that the right to free speech implies the right to be heard. While CloudFlare obviously isn't legally required to serve 8chan, the only service they are really providing is making it so that 8chan can't be DDOS'd. And DDOS'ing is very clearly a tactic that violates the first amendment. So really by no longer serving 8chan, the on…

The First Amendment is completely irrelevant to this situation. No relation whatsoever.

CloudFlare is a private company.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#50

Post by tombert »

nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

I think I'm on the same boat as you on this one; I tend to have a pretty libertarian view on free speech, but lately the bizarre rise of hyper-radical idiots on places like 8chan (and even YouTube to a lesser extent) has really made me question these things.

It's very easy to shout the mantra of "Free speech!!! OMG!!!" but we gain nothing by acting like there aren't natural consequences to it. By having a liberal free-speech system, you are going to expose glitches in the "marketplace of ideas", and demagogues and radicals are going to be able to exploit it.

It might still be worth it (I haven't made up my mind yet on where we draw the line in censorship).

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