Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure what you mean.
Recruiters and interviewers focus too much on "technology of the day" that will always change and be out of date, and not enough on foundational knowledge that is always transferable to new tech. So if you don't have they right modern tech stack on your resume then you have no chance of getting hired even if you are perfectly capable of doing the work. This is where "resume driven development" comes from. Smart and r…
Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
391–400 of 446 posts
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup. Gray-haired contracting life is a different beast altogether compared to being an employee.
How did you start?.. the fear of not being able to acquire work is what's stopping me.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just want to nitpick on a couple of these: > brain "degradation" At 40? If you're suffering from loss of mental capabilities to the point that it affects your performance at work at 40 , you have medical issues that need immediate attention. > simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable ) I've seen this stated many times, but nothing is forcing anyone to offer a particular salary or demand a parti…
Not sure that I agree on the first point. In my 20s, I could easily work 12 hour days, keep tons of complex state in my head, and almost never walked into a room and wondered why I went there (both literally and in the programming metaphorical equivalent). In my 40s, much of that has changed. I'm beat mentally after a 6-7 hour day of coding. I can only keep smaller portions of the system in my head easily. It's possi…
Even if you can only work 6-7 hours a day now, you're most definitely spending that time a lot more efficiently than you did a decade ago. You don't need to keep more information in your head at the moment because you have decades of wisdom guiding your decisions.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
I met a COBOL contract programmer 15 years ago. At the time he made a lot of money from it because there were few left, no new work, but maintaing old code bases. Java today, OTOH, is nowhere near that point yet. People still build plenty of new things in Java and it's easy to search a job site and see tons of Java jobs. The JVM is widely used and no-one will blink twice if you want to build something on it. I don't…
I think it's a mistake to confuse JVM languages with Java. But that aside, By "Java is the new COBOL", I'm not saying that Java today is COBOL today. I'm saying it's a dominant language for legacy apps and a lot of "enterprise" coding in shops that already have a heavy Java investment. But relatively few new companies are doing new work in pure Java, so it's definitely headed down the same road. And there are definit…
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#395The strangeness of Silicon Valley right now is that if you're lucky you can "retire" long before 40. I'm 31 and have through a bit of luck accrued a small 7-figure net worth. I don't plan on being a "rank and file" employee by 33, let alone 40.
You need 8 figures to retire. $30k/year (poverty level) over 30 years is only $1M.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
The guitar playing is a good analogy here. Say you've played classical for years and dabbled in rock and some jazz. Like any musician you've played around a little but probably focus on one style. You're best friend asks you to play flemanco for them at their wedding. Sure, you won't be as good as someone that's played flemanco all their life. But if flemanco was invented 5 years ago you're sure going to pick it up f…
I like this analogy for a separate reason. Many musicians can relate to hitting a ceiling in terms of ability. You might have X years playing any instrument, but depending on talent, you may have plateaued for some period of time. It is highly likely for anyone that has stayed in one role (in a mature industry) that has not actively sought extra-curricular technology to experience this.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
The guitar playing is a good analogy here. Say you've played classical for years and dabbled in rock and some jazz. Like any musician you've played around a little but probably focus on one style. You're best friend asks you to play flemanco for them at their wedding. Sure, you won't be as good as someone that's played flemanco all their life. But if flemanco was invented 5 years ago you're sure going to pick it up f…
>No matter the language you use, there are common patterns. Someone who has been programming for years generally picks up a new language quickly (because of this). So should a programmer with 30 years of experience in C and 1 year in rust be paid more than the programmer with 5 years of rust experience? Absolutely. Those 30 years they were learning to program, to debug, to solve problems. The skills translate. Tell t…
For example, on my team, we're writing most of our new code in Kotlin. But even though the language has now been around for the better part of a decade, we regard prior Kotlin experience as only a very slight nice-to-have when we're evaluating someone. If you've programmed in Java or Scala or C# or C++ or pretty much any other statically-typed language, you'll pick it up quickly enough that the time to get productive in Kotlin will be dwarfed by the time to get familiar with our code base.
What we do usually filter out, though, is monoglots. If you have 10 years of experience and have only ever done, say, Ruby on Rails development, you will probably not have the breadth of engineering perspective to succeed on our team. But if you've done RoR as well as something else that's dramatically different, that's fine. We would probably even filter out a Kotlin monoglot in the unlikely event we ever came across one.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's a mistake to confuse JVM languages with Java. But that aside, By "Java is the new COBOL", I'm not saying that Java today is COBOL today. I'm saying it's a dominant language for legacy apps and a lot of "enterprise" coding in shops that already have a heavy Java investment. But relatively few new companies are doing new work in pure Java, so it's definitely headed down the same road. And there are definit…
Netflix, Amazon, Google are all on the Java train in real capacities. There's a crap load of Java out there.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think those are cleanly separable. When you talk with people who left the industry, it's very rarely, "I was successful and engaged and really enjoying it, so I decided to switch to something entirely different where I had to start over and earn a lot less." For a lot of people who experience discrimination, it's not one big blow-up that forces them out. It's the steady drip-drip-drip of being treated poorly,…
And sometimes when people aren't that good at their jobs, they blame external causes instead of accepting responsibility for their own performance. (Note: I do realize that discrimination and bad managers are real things, but then again so is the Dunning–Kruger effect.)
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just quality, it's capability. As I'm fond of saying, I may cost twice as much as an entry level engineer, but I can do things that two entry level engineers can't do.
I keep hearing this but sometimes you just need hands on keyboard to push things out fast. Yes I can do a passable job at front end, middleware, databases, and I'm pretty adept at cloud infrastructure and devops. Does that mean I'm as valuable as 5 people? I can only do one of those at the same time.
This isn't typically how it plays out when you start a new job for someone else. Which means they won't reap the rewards of your experience until enough trust has been built to give you the autonomy to make it happen (this may never happen). So it takes time, and not everyone wants to take that time or can see the benefit, and arguably in the startup space there may not be enough runway for it either.