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Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

bbc.com

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Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#81

Post by [deleted] »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #78
hestipod wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, the normal human failings/thoughts/emotions are not the same thing as this articles premise. I also do not accept that everyone has moments of cruelty. Cruel thoughts are not the same thing. We all think things and choosing how we react is the difference. I feel that trying to claim even the best people are secretly hiding evils is an attempt to feel better about one's own feelings or actions. I am confide…

My agrument is not the article's premise applies equally to everyone in severity. My argument is that people are never who they present themselves to be. This is due a variety of things, a mix of intentional avoidance of topics and impossibility to completely share a lifetime experience with another, atomic human mind. That you assume this claim is itself a deceptive act is an easy cognitive shortcut from parsing tha…

[deleted]

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#82

Post by hestipod »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #78
hestipod wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, the normal human failings/thoughts/emotions are not the same thing as this articles premise. I also do not accept that everyone has moments of cruelty. Cruel thoughts are not the same thing. We all think things and choosing how we react is the difference. I feel that trying to claim even the best people are secretly hiding evils is an attempt to feel better about one's own feelings or actions. I am confide…

My agrument is not the article's premise applies equally to everyone in severity. My argument is that people are never who they present themselves to be. This is due a variety of things, a mix of intentional avoidance of topics and impossibility to completely share a lifetime experience with another, atomic human mind. That you assume this claim is itself a deceptive act is an easy cognitive shortcut from parsing tha…

Because I don't see the fact that we have to present ourselves to the outside world with some form of restraint or self censorship to function (your technically correct "not who we appear to be") as remotely the same thing as fraud designed to manipulate/profit. I don't think it's reasonable at all to put those in the same box as some proof "everyone does it".

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#83

Post by mastre_ »

hestipod wrote: post #72
burk96 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe vanity of some sort is an innately human trait, I doubt societal changes will eliminate it. Rather I see a future that the reporter was alluding to, where our bodies are just as customizable as a digital filter like the streamer used. Who knows, as crazy as it may sound, perhaps in a few hundred years most social interaction will be "assisted" by VR, AR, or some other reality changing technology where we do…

That VR future idea sounds horrifying to me. I want to know the genuine person, not fakery. It just ruins the point of any relationship for me...which is to share experience, honestly, vulnerability. If it all becomes a performance then why do we even need people? Just some AI pretending to be some character is good enough.

While I agree with you, I don't know why exactly I agree you. Allow me to explain. The "real you," the "genuine" you, is nothing more than some random, arbitrary (for the most part) stuff you got from genes and the environment surrounding you (as in, it's effect on you) and, to usually a lesser extent, some of the life choices you've made. Now, it is you in the sense that you've lived with it for your whole life (some could say, put up with it, depending on your luck of the draw and what you think//how you feel about it).

I think the real you is really your mind. Our minds are so special, and on such a higher level, that the physical manifestation is very simplistic in comparison. To illustrate: we seem to look down on those who do as this woman did, but if someone was, say, a burn victim with 1st-degree burns all over their body including the face, we wouldn't think twice about using technology to improve their lives this way (btw, anyone know if this used in any such capacity?).

I'm providing some food for thought as I am challenging my own initial knee-jerk reaction which is "this is horrible, what have we become?" If there's one thing I learned about human behavior, it is that there is usually a whole lot more than what meets they eye (pun semi-intended) going on.

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#84

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

I know this is tangential to the whole thing, but this is a cool feature of the Chinese language:

>The story has been incredibly popular across Chinese social networks with more than 600 million people reading posts that use a hashtag which translates to "female vlogger experiences bug showing her old lady face" and more than 50,000 using the hashtag itself.

In english, you're never going to get a twitter trend of #FemaleVloggerExperiencesBugShowingHerOldLadyFace. Does anyone know of research looking at how more compact languages influence trending? It seems neat.

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#85

Post by hestipod »

mastre_ wrote: post #83
hestipod wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That VR future idea sounds horrifying to me. I want to know the genuine person, not fakery. It just ruins the point of any relationship for me...which is to share experience, honestly, vulnerability. If it all becomes a performance then why do we even need people? Just some AI pretending to be some character is good enough.

While I agree with you, I don't know why exactly I agree you. Allow me to explain. The "real you," the "genuine" you, is nothing more than some random, arbitrary (for the most part) stuff you got from genes and the environment surrounding you (as in, it's effect on you) and, to usually a lesser extent, some of the life choices you've made. Now, it is you in the sense that you've lived with it for your whole life (som…

I understand. Our mind is "us" and not something we can really let anyone else see. I guess I believe that some people live more in genuine sync with who they are, which can be done in a functional way that still allows you to exist in society, and some are wearing mask over mask over mask in order to manipulate the system or people. It sounds exhausting to me and makes it hard to trust people.

About the burn victim example, I wouldn't feel "normal" hiding my scars no matter how severe. I don't feel using tech to hide scars or alter appearance is an improvement. It speaks poorly to society that people think they NEED to to fit in or not be discriminated against. It's up to us to treat each other with respect despite such things, not up to the person with those issues to hide them to blend in...in my idealistic view I mean. I know that's not how it works...sadly.

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#86

Post by dlivingston »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #5

Everyone is presenting false versions of themselves, especially the people who present themselves as a true version of themselves. I'm admittedly quite sadenned by the continued commodification of female appearances in this manner. I am curious if male vlogging has similar tricks to get more $$$.

> I am curious if male vlogging has similar tricks to get more $$$.

This Chinese incident is just another example of 'female beauty as a commodity'. You can also see this effect with Instagram influencers (where females vastly outnumber men), the modeling industry, the cam model industry, etc.

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#87

Post by dlivingston »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #47
sschueller wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, steroids. The usage is rampant.

No, I mean why doesn't pewdiepie accent his cheekbones some more via technology. Maybe make his arms bigger. IDK.

Male beauty is not valued as highly among men and women as female beauty. It's all too easy to speculate on the evolutionary and sociocultural reasons why, but it is the reality.

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#88

Post by CM30 »

cwkoss wrote: post #13

This is just a form of digital makeup. I predict that using a young attractive avatar will become the social norm and this sort of thing will be entirely unobjectionable within a decade.

To be honest, it's kind of already happening. It's long been a trend for certain people to use cartoon representations of themselves that look a lot younger/more conventionally attractive than they may be in 'real life', and there are quite a few YouTubers and Twitch streamers using either animated portraits of themselves or fictional characters as their avatars.

The big difference in future will be that more people will be using avatars that look more like actual people/deaged photographs of themselves instead.

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#89

Post by dlivingston »

devoply wrote: post #25
edgarvaldes wrote: post #21

When you reward people for their physical appearance (and certain standards of beauty), it is no surprise that they take advantage of technology to look as expected by the public.

To look at it another way, some people have a natural advantage in life that they did not earn. This helps even that playing field.

Hogwash. Life is full of inequalities; the very nature of evolution is inequality. Visit Eastasia or Eurasia if you want an equal outcome civilization.

Re: Middle-aged vlogger who used filter to look young caught in live-stream glitch

#90

Post by sdegutis »

inscionent wrote: post #80
sdegutis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Vanity of vanities, all is vanity." The words vanity and vain come from the Latin word for empty, or without substance or value. When we alter our appearance, it's because we put value or merit in something that inherently has no merit. We all want a reason to hold our head up high. Some look for it in athletics, others in academia, others in financial success. This woman looked for it by faking her physical appeara…

One person's vanity is another's identity. Dressing up like Bronie can be just a fulfilling as singing a hymn. If you want everyone to stand tall with you, try meeting them where they are instead of pushing your world view as supreme.

Our outward appearance can and do represent what values we identify with. But saying "I'm worthy because I am beautiful" is shallow, which is just another way of saying empty, vain, and without substance.

Besides, why would someone want their worth to come from beauty, which is so fleeting? True and lasting beauty is in virtue, even non-religious people admire the sacrifices of soldiers for the sake of freedom, or the sacrifices of Gandhi for peace. These are truly beautiful.

Physical beauty is empty and devoid of merit. But like anything else we have, our physical height, our intelligence, our gift for music, our gift for software, it can be put to good use in the selfless service of others, at which point it becomes truly beautiful.

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