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Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

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Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#121
post #58

"Homo sapiens" is Latin for "wise man," but there were many Hominin species who possessed comparative culture, art, and intelligence. Neanderthals actually had larger brains compared to modern humans[0]. There are many theories on why Neanderthals became extinct[1]; my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal. What is Latin for "sexy human?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Anato…

They had greater cranial capacity than us, but so do elephants and whales. And the animal with the greatest brain-to-body-size ratio is tree shrew, suggesting that size doesn't really matter when it comes to intelligence.

I wonder which had the most “brain folds”

You know how they say that insult “smooth brain”

We have more neuron surface area and thats how we pack a punch in intelligence ive heard...

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#122
post #17

Hi everyone, just letting you all know, it's no surprise that modern homo sapiens ancestors bumped uglies with other species in the genus of homo back in the day. The enlightening part of this article is there are some unknown species in homo that we have genetic evidence of, but no fossil record. The thing you should be fascinated by, there were many contemporary relatives to homo sapiens that could have been as muc…

Yes that's the interesting part. But disagree that 'there's plenty of evidence'. The fact is, there's no evidence whatsoever - that's what 'unknown species' means.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#123

"Homo sapiens" is Latin for "wise man," but there were many Hominin species who possessed comparative culture, art, and intelligence. Neanderthals actually had larger brains compared to modern humans[0]. There are many theories on why Neanderthals became extinct[1]; my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal. What is Latin for "sexy human?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Anato…

It is understandable why we are eager to find capacities for language and culture in similar species, but the thing that gives homo sapiens the ability to survive is not just language or art, but our ability to organize large numbers of people under trans-familial identities (i.e. advanced political states and culture-defining religion). If they weren't politically (high level behavior control) and religiously (low level behavior control) organized, they weren't organized well enough survive.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#124
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never had the chance to meet elephants. Now, from what I've learned/read about their behaviours, I have no doubt on the depth of their lives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_cognition#Elephant_so... And I wouldn't call that "some sort of language". That's language. Species-specific. Not "human" language. Even language that another species can grasp more or less perfectly. You can get that with minimal observ…

When I see a videos / images of wolves I don’t perceive that “intelligence” that I perceive from dogs. Not to say wolves are any less intelligent or cognitive, dogs just have had the constraint that they needed to be able to communicate with humans well or they could die. Kind of makes me think if we ever were to encounter extraterrestrial intelligence we might have trouble identifying them as intelligent, or, have t…

Depends on the situation in which we encounter the aliens. If wolves were building interplanetary spacecraft, we'd have a hard time saying they weren't intelligent.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#125

"Homo sapiens" is Latin for "wise man," but there were many Hominin species who possessed comparative culture, art, and intelligence. Neanderthals actually had larger brains compared to modern humans[0]. There are many theories on why Neanderthals became extinct[1]; my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal. What is Latin for "sexy human?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Anato…

So what your saying is the movie "Idiocracy" already happened??

(Plot- the smartest people stop reproducing, only lower rings of society have kids. An average guy wakes up hundreds of years in the future and is a genius)

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#126

"Homo sapiens" is Latin for "wise man," but there were many Hominin species who possessed comparative culture, art, and intelligence. Neanderthals actually had larger brains compared to modern humans[0]. There are many theories on why Neanderthals became extinct[1]; my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal. What is Latin for "sexy human?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Anato…

My favourite comes from archeological evidence showing that we traveled further and traded for a larger range of items, whereas they stuck to themselves and smaller area ranges. When the cold hit they ran out of options and resources quicker, they simply didn't have the required knowledge of how to survive.

I understand that "we" are descended from one group and "they" are another lineage, but it sounds so weird to me, and oddly personal, to use "we" so much in this context. It happened a long time ago firstly, so none of us can claim to be involved. And as far as I know, the Neanderthals didn't die out due to being bad people, so there is no need to shove it in their faces, metaphorically speaking, that "we" are that much better. One species surviving and another not might as well be a lucky coincidence.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#127

"Homo sapiens" is Latin for "wise man," but there were many Hominin species who possessed comparative culture, art, and intelligence. Neanderthals actually had larger brains compared to modern humans[0]. There are many theories on why Neanderthals became extinct[1]; my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal. What is Latin for "sexy human?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Anato…

It is understandable why we are eager to find capacities for language and culture in similar species, but the thing that gives homo sapiens the ability to survive is not just language or art, but our ability to organize large numbers of people under trans-familial identities (i.e. advanced political states and culture-defining religion). If they weren't politically (high level behavior control) and religiously (low l…

What is the evidence for this claim?

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#128
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're not. The only 'evidence' for this is cranial size. Neanderthals had larger brain sizes than modern humans. Now let's look at all the other evidence. Neanderthals existed longer than the entire existence of humans. And in that time they never managed to get out of the stone age. Stone age sounds nicer than it is. Beat two rocks together, sharp stuff falls off, use it => you're in the stone age. Contrary to…

The earliest homo sapien skeletons were found in Morocco and are dated almost 300,000 years old. So our species was around for hundreds of thousands of years and we didn’t do much more than the Neanderthals. So Neanderthals not demonstrating culture doesn’t mean much, since our own species also went a long time without demonstrating culture. Indeed, it is an interesting question , what were we using these enormous br…

Looking for the monoliths? Jokes aside, probably not much. Biological classifications don't imply sameness. You don't get anatomically modern humans until 30,000-50,000 years ago. Even that doesn't tell you much about cognitive ability. Think about something like the Flynn Effect [1]. In the past century real IQ scores rose by more than a standard deviation throughout most of the world. That means a person of perfectly mean intelligence today would be more intelligent, so far as IQ can measure, than 84% of people from a century ago. And over thousands of years? Of course now the Flynn Effect seems to have reversed in most developed nations with us becoming literally less intelligent, again so far as IQ can measure.

The point is that even in a time frame of a single century you're looking at very radical changes in intellectual ability between populations that would appear, on the surface, to be practically 100% identical. When you start talking about tens of thousands of years ago, it's impossible to do even begin to intelligently speculate based on anything other than achievement. And what did we achieve? As you mention, not much. And so the only justifiable explanation is that we probably didn't have that much going on upstairs until relatively recently.

I think the most interesting question is a direct spin off of yours. What triggered the intellectual spike? Was it in any way related to whatever caused the more contemporary spikes in intelligence? Why are IQs now decreasing and can global intellect fade away as rapidly as it emerged? Probably the most depressing possible solution to the Fermi paradox!

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#129
post #114
post #3

If we interbred with them, how are they actually species? It seems more to me you're talking more about racial or breed differences akin to breeds of dogs if two species actually successfuly had viable offspring in the wild.

Yes. A topic of much debate. Many of the original work regarding Neaderthals was by 19th-century elite-school scientists with a publication history of eugenics and the confidence that comes from the knowledge of innate superiority of their own kind. Anyone who didn't look like them would be obviously inferior. They didn't know what we know today -- Neanderthals were light-skinned fair-hared people who had survived fo…

And evidence that sapiens x neanderthal offspring were not always fertile, see elsewhere in this thread.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#130
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you'd agree that a wolf and a chihuahua are different species. Yet they can interbreed and the offspring would likely be fertile as well. Species are primarily created when two groups do not interbreed for a sufficiently long period of time resulting in an accumulation of distinct differences. The crazy thing is that time period is not especially long. The time distance from wolf to chihuahua is only about 1…

They are not different species in any traditional biological sense. Yes, they look different due to radical changes in developmental pathways. But the differences are not actually very extreme genetically. They have almost exactly the same basic biology.

As a peer mentioned, species predates genetics. But even when you go for a genetic solution it's not clear. How would you propose this? For instance various studies using different metrics put humans and chimps at between 95% and 99% identical. It's the counter intuitive thing about genetics. But then to further confuse the picture is that genome-wide variation between humans can differ by as much as 0.5%. So clearly drawing a genetic boundary between species seems it's subject to the exact same difficulties as our previous phenotypical classifications.
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