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Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

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Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can breed, but if I'm not mistaken the off-spring can't have off-spring of their own.

Lions and tigers can interbreed. Ligers and tigons are fertile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE8Z5Es-M0E

I thought this was just a figment if napolean’s imagination

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2.3% Neanderthal Pride checking in!

Put that on your college application and you'll get a free ride so they can meet their diversity quota.

Oh wow. So witty. Really interesting intelligent post. Take that drivel back to 4chan.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#33
post #3

If we interbred with them, how are they actually species? It seems more to me you're talking more about racial or breed differences akin to breeds of dogs if two species actually successfuly had viable offspring in the wild.

I'm sure you'd agree that a wolf and a chihuahua are different species. Yet they can interbreed and the offspring would likely be fertile as well. Species are primarily created when two groups do not interbreed for a sufficiently long period of time resulting in an accumulation of distinct differences. The crazy thing is that time period is not especially long. The time distance from wolf to chihuahua is only about 15,000 years!

Major physical differences (such as wolf) or inability to interbreed or infertile offspring (such as mules) are all just rules of thumb. For instance zebras and horses are clearly distinct species yet they physically appear extremely similar sans their coloring, can interbreed, and there have even been instances of fertile offspring.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#34

What is the difference between the genes identifies as "extra-species sourced" and those which are a nominal part of homo sapiens DNA? How do we know they don't originate from intra-species mutation, for example?

Genes tend to to accumulate mutations at a constant rate (lots of caveats here, but that's the general idea). If you find that a population has a family of gene variants that are very different from the same ones in another population, then it's a good bet it arrived from external breeding. And the relative differences between the modern descendant genes can tell you when it happened.

Again, I'm sure the real models get really complicated and are no doubt still a little controversial. But that's the basic idea.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#35
post #9

This theory was one of the most interesting ideas in Sapiens , take a look at a model of what other great apes look like, if so many types of dog can interbreed why wouldn't these great apes?

This is misleading. Superficial physical appearance isn't always a good indicator of genetic similarity or sexual compatibility.

Who's downvoting this? This is exactly correct. In fact domestic dogs have IIRC considerably less genetic diversity than their wolf ancestors do.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, seems more logical to say ancient human experienced a number genetic divergences which were then folded into the mainline of the genetic stream.

Environment plays a huge role. If a nomadic group was in a jungle-like environment, wouldn’t they more likely develop the traits of the other species well suited for jungle living? Over a long enough timescale.

Epigenetics is indicating that our traditional view of genetics is probably just completely wrong, but going with that traditional view - it's not that an environment changes a species, but randomness. And traits randomly evolved that end up beneficial are preserved in the lineage due to increased survivability. Jungle like environments tend to be extremely favorable for the survival of intelligent species which means natural selection starts to play less of a role.

Well it does play a role, but in different ways. For instance modern humans are continuing to evolve even though natural selection, in terms of man against environment, is now playing very near 0 role. Instead the factor being selected for now is simple fertility. Humanity will tend to evolve along the characteristics of those families have 3, 4 and more children - while those having 2 or fewer children will gradually fade from the gene pool. So natural selection has in some ways become voluntary, which is quite paradoxical.

However in less developed areas, it's still alive in some ways. For instance if an individual in subsahara Africa somehow developed a genetically heritable mutation making him immune to malaria, it's reasonably likely that all subsaharan Africans would, gradually, become immune to malaria. We can only conclude, putting aside epigenetic factors once again, that such mutations are much less common than e.g. those to the shape of a bird's beak.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#37
post #7
post #3

If we interbred with them, how are they actually species? It seems more to me you're talking more about racial or breed differences akin to breeds of dogs if two species actually successfuly had viable offspring in the wild.

Interbreeding isn't a bright line. Zebras can breed with Donkeys! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebroid Darwin's Origin of Species had a good section on this; the book is quite readable.

"Darwin's Origin of Species had a good section on this; the book is quite readable."

Yeah, I recall Darwin discussing at length how there's no clear difference between a "species" and a "variety". It's a key point, so it's too bad that many people are still under the impression that "species" has an unambiguous definition.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#38
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interbreeding isn't a bright line. Zebras can breed with Donkeys! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebroid Darwin's Origin of Species had a good section on this; the book is quite readable.

They can breed, but if I'm not mistaken the off-spring can't have off-spring of their own.

Mules and hinnies are tipically sterile but can sometimes be fertile too, hybrids are more complex than whatbis generally known.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, seems more logical to say ancient human experienced a number genetic divergences which were then folded into the mainline of the genetic stream.

Environment plays a huge role. If a nomadic group was in a jungle-like environment, wouldn’t they more likely develop the traits of the other species well suited for jungle living? Over a long enough timescale.

The habitat also swings, so behavior specialist sub species for every part of the cycle, which allow long term adjustment to circumstances by percentages would be quite beneficial.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#40
post #18

Suppose we found enough DNA to recreate these hominins. Would they be citizens or zoo animals? Either way, what if they want to interbreed? Do we determine this based on looks? What if the attraction is unidirectional?

Some of these species are thought to be smarter than us, so you better be careful or you will end up the specimen in the zoo.

No, they're not. The only 'evidence' for this is cranial size. Neanderthals had larger brain sizes than modern humans. Now let's look at all the other evidence. Neanderthals existed longer than the entire existence of humans. And in that time they never managed to get out of the stone age. Stone age sounds nicer than it is. Beat two rocks together, sharp stuff falls off, use it => you're in the stone age.

Contrary to pop media, there is also literally no clear evidence they even engaged in the most basic of symbolic behavior such as self adornment or even primitive art. [1] Now mostly disregarded efforts to show such were highly optimistic. This included things like bird bones being laid near a corpse = self adornment, or scratches on a cave floor = art. Even in what they did do - hunt, despite engaging in hunting for hundreds of thousands of years there are extremely high rates of traumatic injury among neanderthal corpses which suggests they never even managed to refine their hunting ability.

And the brain size : intelligence correlation is just so broken in so many ways. If you go based on raw size sperm whales should be, by far, the most intelligent species there is. If you go based on the ratio of brain matter to mass, ants should be, again by far, the most intelligent species there is. Suffice to say you're probably not too worried about being put in zoos by sperm whales or ants.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Culture

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