Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#81

Post by Juliate » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 9:36 AM UTC

1000units wrote: post #59

orange8 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had greater cranial capacity than us, but so do elephants and whales. And the animal with the greatest brain-to-body-size ratio is tree shrew, suggesting that size doesn't really matter when it comes to intelligence.

Neither of those animals has the appropriate morphology to build tools or use complex language. How do we know they aren't actually smarter than us?

> or use complex language.

That we know of. They might completely have complex language using different mediums (infra sounds, vibrations, movements, smells, etc.).

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#82

Post by anentropic » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 9:37 AM UTC

typical

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#83

Post by quickthrower2 » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #73

ethiclub wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any known ring species where (A + B cannot breed OR B + C cannot breed) AND A + B can breed? Assume not possible?

That's logically equivalent to (A + B can breed) AND (B + C cannot breed), not a very exciting question. Did you mean AND (A + C can breed)?

Still not exciting. I think we are looking for non transitivity: A+B & B+C but !A+C

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#84

Post by irishsultan » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:05 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #83

skrebbel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's logically equivalent to (A + B can breed) AND (B + C cannot breed), not a very exciting question. Did you mean AND (A + C can breed)?

Still not exciting. I think we are looking for non transitivity: A+B & B+C but !A+C

That's exactly what a ring species is.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#85

Post by PeterisP » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:08 AM UTC

firecall wrote: post #71

I'm curious; can we assume they were similar enough to be attractive or desirable as mates? It's obvious different cultural standards may have applied. Or am I asking a stupid question?

Since we have documented cases of e.g. orangutans being used in prostitution, debating whether different hominids would attempt sex with each other isn't necessary. Yes, they would, it it's somehow physically possible.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#86

Post by Retric » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:12 AM UTC

inciampati wrote: post #70

rjf72 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you'd agree that a wolf and a chihuahua are different species. Yet they can interbreed and the offspring would likely be fertile as well. Species are primarily created when two groups do not interbreed for a sufficiently long period of time resulting in an accumulation of distinct differences. The crazy thing is that time period is not especially long. The time distance from wolf to chihuahua is only about 1…

They are not different species in any traditional biological sense. Yes, they look different due to radical changes in developmental pathways. But the differences are not actually very extreme genetically. They have almost exactly the same basic biology.

Specie’s definition predates our knowledge about genetics so it’s an imperfect mapping.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#87

Post by itronitron » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:18 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #76

amelius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal. Then why didn't the smart and strong Neanderthal males mate with the sexy Sapiens females?

That is exactly what they did - all the Neanderthal genes in the current populations has come down via Neanderthal males and sapien female matings. Personally I blame Tinder, but it could have something to do with Haldane's Rule [0]. 0 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane%27s_rule

Can you provide a citation for your first point? I don't see how Haldane's Rule would support that, but maybe I am missing something.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#88

Post by brohee » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:27 AM UTC

firecall wrote: post #71

I'm curious; can we assume they were similar enough to be attractive or desirable as mates? It's obvious different cultural standards may have applied. Or am I asking a stupid question?

Datapoint : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#/media/File:Recons...

Uglier Homo Sapiens found mates

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#89

Post by brohee » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:36 AM UTC

hashberry wrote: post #55

"Homo sapiens" is Latin for "wise man," but there were many Hominin species who possessed comparative culture, art, and intelligence. Neanderthals actually had larger brains compared to modern humans[0]. There are many theories on why Neanderthals became extinct[1]; my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal. What is Latin for "sexy human?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Anato…

> my favorite is that we simply outbred them because of our sex appeal

I think not, Homo Sapiens just starves better, Neanderthal superior athleticism came at a huge calorie cost, so when preys became rarer Neanderthal starved faster than Sapiens.

Re: Humans Interbred with Four Extinct Hominin Species, Research Finds

#90

Post by danieltillett » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:38 AM UTC

itronitron wrote: post #87

danieltillett wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what they did - all the Neanderthal genes in the current populations has come down via Neanderthal males and sapien female matings. Personally I blame Tinder, but it could have something to do with Haldane's Rule [0]. 0 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane%27s_rule

Can you provide a citation for your first point? I don't see how Haldane's Rule would support that, but maybe I am missing something.

I am at home tapping away on my iPad so i don't have access to my papers, but it is known there are no Neanderthal genes on the X chromosome. This is what is expected with Haldane's rule where one cross between species is fertile and the other infertile.