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The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

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Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#141

Post by gnode »

dangerface wrote: post #89
gadders wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say it like it's a bad thing. The UK has a lot more in common politically and philosophically with the US than the EU. TBH they should rename NAFTA to the North Atlantic Free Trade Area and we'd all be better off.

>The UK has a lot more in common politically and philosophically with the US than the EU. Not even close, let's take a basic fundamental US principle like the right to free speech, it doesn't exist in the UK. The UK has had relation ships with most of the European countries for longer than the US has existed. The UK has more import and exports with the EU that the US and because of geographic constraints this will no…

> US principle like the right to free speech, it doesn't exist in the UK.

The UK has a right to freedom of expression in both common law and the Human Rights Act (incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights). There are many exceptions, but that's also the case for the First Amendment of the United States' constitution.

Both the UK and US have defamation laws, criminalise real threats, Official Secrets Act / Espionage Act, gag orders, etc.

One could argue there is a better right to free speech in the US, and that it has stronger legal protections, but it's by no means absolute or beyond comparison with that of the UK.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#143

Post by atoav »

dangerface wrote: post #116

> UK made illegal copies of classified personal information from a database reserved for members of the passport-free Schengen travel zone. The UK is not in the Schengen travel zone and had no right to be accessing the data or sharing it with other foreign powers. The problem is that too much power is collected in one place that encourages bad actors to weaken security so that they can later do a grab and dash with "…

Interestingly enough these have been the talking points of the critics for decades now — one wonders if this is deliberatly ignored.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#145

Post by rsynnott »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #70
philbarr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, absolutely all of the people who voted leave were completely rational. Like my father-in-law who voted leave so we can send all them Indians back home.

Ah yes, the common, people didn't vote my way, so they must be crazy/racist/stupid. People had their reasons for voting the way they did, and you show your ignorance and lack of perspective when you dismiss their views like that. Calling people racist doesn't make opposing views go away, especially when over half the people in the country have those views. edit: Keep up the downvotes, it doesn't change anything.

Someone who voted for brexit to ‘send the Indians home’ is clearly both racist (self-evident) and stupid (how would brexit do that?)

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#146

Post by swebs »

vinay427 wrote: post #100
patrickmcnamara wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor is there in the EU. The only government that has my fingerprint is the US, despite being an Irishman.

Right, but it's worth mentioning that unlike the US and perhaps Ireland, countries in the Schengen area are required to issue passports containing fingerprint data, though most (all?) do not have a centralized database of citizens' fingerprints. The Netherlands planned to create a centralized store but it seems to face public opposition.

I'm pretty sure modern USA passports require fingerprint data. They at least have the pokeball symbol signaling that it contains biometrics.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#147

Post by alexgmcm »

toyg wrote: post #41
arethuza wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could all get very messy - I think it is is highly likely that Scotland will want a second independence referendum as a major argument for staying in the union the last time was that it meant Scotland would stay in the EU. However, I also think the current government is also unlikely to allow a second referendum, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Scottish Government decided to have one anyway. Edit: To be clear:…

Yeah, it’s going to be Catalunya all over again. Except Scotland is not a little province, and if the SNP is forced underground, stuff will start to blow up for real.

Catalunya isn't a little province either - in fact much of the issue is because it has a large amount of the GDP.

I'm English but was living in Scotland at the time of the referendum there (I abstained) and having been living in Barcelona since (including the vote here).

I'm not sure if independence would be good or not in either case (thus why I never voted) but I hope the UK Government never tries the sort of violent voter suppression I saw here.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#148

Post by _Understated_ »

mdpye wrote: post #81
_Understated_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's pretty well understood that in majority we don't want to leave, the other half are mostly a combination of naive, manipulated and coerced based on false claims and social media... What? There was a vote. A vote where everyone elligible had the chance to voice their opinion and the majority (albeit slim) said "we want out". As for the slur of being naieve and manipulated that's bullshit (from my standpoint anyw…

But the vote was poorly informed and actively manipulated. Many people voted leave as a protest against the state of the country, not the EU, and have said so. And many of the most persuasive statements made by the leave campaign were shown to be deliberate falsehoods. I respect the desires of those who genuinely wish to leave the EU, but the referendum result was not anything close to a true measurement of that, and…

Perhaps I live in a bubble but to me it was pretty clear: In or out.

As for the result not reflecting the people that's nonsense: Everyone with the ability to vote and the right to vote could and should have voted. If they didn't then tough.

If people were swayed by politicians promising one thing or another and all the nonsense that flowed through social media then that's on them.

I don't get this attitude that people have of "oh, it's not fair, we were lied to". We are talking about policicians here: they are only going to say whatever makes them popular and gets/keeps them in power.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#149

Post by jessaustin »

r3bl wrote: post #27
karl_schlagenfu wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is ironic because some of the reasons Brits want to leave is because of the French, e.g. why does the EU parliament have to spend 100million+ EUR to have the parliament in Strasbourg for 3 days of the month?

It's almost as if the EU has 28 members, none of which should have an authoritative say in any of the things the bloc does. Want something changed? Build a support within a bloc. Don't pretend your opinion is any more valuable than an opinion of any of the other 27 members.

Don't pretend your opinion is any more valuable than an opinion of any of the other 27 members.

I'm an outsider on this, but I could imagine this as an effective quote to replay in any "leave" campaign. Can we really imagine UK (or Germany) ever being relegated to having only the influence of e.g. Slovenia?

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#150

Post by dangerface »

IanCal wrote: post #111
dangerface wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak? This is like the police refusing to respond to death threats until the person is dead.

What they seem to be saying is not that the data hasn't leaked, but that it likely does not even exist. If that's true, a headline of "X has been copied" would be wrong if X didn't exist.

The data does exist, and they are and have been collating it into one super database according to the article pknight posted. So I go back to my argument:

> So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak?

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