China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger • Hacker News Board

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#31

Post by underthebus » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

CogitoCogito wrote: post #28

underthebus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The PRC has never governed Taiwan yet essentially no governments call their imperialism what it is and tacitly accept their “unification” language. Taiwan is internationally recognised as being part of China. What happened is that the Chinese government of the time fled there during the civil war. The communists founded the PRC and the ROC government kept control of Taiwan. Since then the question has been who to r…

Look you’re just repeating the same nonsense they are. I don’t even blame you. You’ve heard it so often so that it must be true. The PRC has never governed Taiwan. The ROC hasn’t governed the mainland for close to 70 years. They have separate militaries, currencies, and separate international relations. Hell they even trade with each other. They are two separate countries regardless of what either sides political cla…

> Look you’re just repeating the same nonsense they are.

I am describing the historical reality.

I think the point of HN is to be able to do that without receiving insults in return.

> They are two separate countries regardless of what either sides political claims.

They are of course are de facto separate states. This does not change a thing to my previous comment.

'China' is made of the mainland and Taiwan, like 'Germany' was made of East and West Germany.

Really, the mistake of the PRC is to have prevented the use of the official name of what Taiwan is as a state: The Republic of China. That would have nipped all those "Taiwan v. China" narratives in the bud.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#32

Post by ericd » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

underthebus wrote: post #25

CogitoCogito wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they send the tanks and the shock-troops in to Hong Kong, then no one can deny that that's all bullshit. Of course people can still deny it. Tiananmen Square happened after all. The PRC has never governed Taiwan yet essentially no governments call their imperialism what it is and tacitly accept their “unification” language. At the end of the day countries can argue up is down if money is involved.

> The PRC has never governed Taiwan yet essentially no governments call their imperialism what it is and tacitly accept their “unification” language. Taiwan is internationally recognised as being part of China. What happened is that the Chinese government of the time fled there during the civil war. The communists founded the PRC and the ROC government kept control of Taiwan. Since then the question has been who to r…

Pretty sure those other countries were/are internationally recognized as being separate countries.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#33

Post by w_s_l » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

really worried for hong kong. CCP is shoring up support at home for an escalation in physical violence.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#34

Post by w_s_l » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

moftz wrote: post #13

China is really betting on the media coverage helping the pro-China side. They control the narrative and the discussion in official channels but that doesn't mean they control everything. Hong Kong is insular enough that they could become something like Taiwan, de facto independent. I don't see major revolution in Beijing happening anytime soon.

im quite surprised that they would be willing to take such a risky bet. but after seeing Crimea get a pass from the West, more and more countries with authoritarian regime have become emboldened further more with the US in political disarray.

It appears that the leadership's patience has run out and it is nervous that it will spread to other cities like Wuhan, in which there's currently a massive protest ongoing.

This almost certainly means elevated levels of violence. They've already deployed tanks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y1ezo6m8V8) in Wuhan which means the Hong Kong PLA garrison's APCs will be making a world media debut soon.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#35

Post by loyukfai » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

underthebus wrote: post #22

CountSessine wrote: post #15

It's kind of fascinating how important the defacing of the national insignia is in the reporting in China. An authoritarian government like China's has no real mandate - they have no right to be running the country and no legitimacy that can be claimed. They're a bunch of men that the army listens to. They have the guns and the power and that's it. With such a government, symbols and flags are the proxies for legitim…

Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause. China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists). The communist government did manage to…

It's a two-way street. People feel humiliated, and CCP utilises this feeling to build up an xenophobic atmosphere which feeds back into the loop.

The funny and sad thing is that, one could say it's the CCP themselves who killed the most Chinese in the last century, speaking figuratively.

There are many things I don't agree with or quite understand about the front line protesters, but one thing I'm pretty sure is that they don't give a shit about the CCP image being tarnished.

They were shouting for revolutions in the streets already (whether it's a good or workable idea is up for debate), Xi's feeling is not their concern now.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#36

Post by loyukfai » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #18

CountSessine wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you think other nations are supposed to do? Or what influence they can possibly have? Hong Kong is Chinese territory - really, they can do whatever they want there. This is the same regime that is holding as many as a million Uyghurs in concentration camps right now. One interesting constraint that Beijing is operating under, though, is Taiwan. The government has argued in favor of reunificati…

China would be risking sanctions. Given that their economy is already slowing (dramatically faster than the official numbers by many reports) and their massive debt loads -- sanctions could pack a real punch.

Personally I don't think other countries are willing to sanction China just for Hong Kong.

But it is a piece on the chessboard, for sure.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#37

Post by loyukfai » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

deogeo wrote: post #10

caust1c wrote: post #4

It's pretty surreal watching this conflict play out. I'm still shocked this is happening on the international stage and other nations are unwilling to take sides in the conflict. I wonder what happens when the tension comes to a precipice and China sends in security forces to "maintain the peace". I hope for Hong Kong and the global economy's sake, it doesn't come to that. Although it seems like that's exactly what t…

> other nations are unwilling to take sides in the conflict. As soon as a foreign nation takes sides, then those in the country on the same side can be easily cast as collaborators, or just tools of the foreign nation. E.g. it turns Protesters vs. Chinese Government into Tools of US Imperialism vs. China.

Foreign interferences have long been the main talking point of CCP and HK establishment, but it's mostly a smokescreen or misjudgement of the current protests, if you ask me.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#38

Post by w_s_l » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

billfruit wrote: post #16

hart_russell wrote: post #8

There's a lot of negative things that can be said about president Trump, but I for one am glad he's taken economic action against China. It seems like most Nations have resigned themselves to let China become the preeminent super power, which is very troubling to me; to let a nation with legitimate concentration camps, prisoner organ harvesting, and a general lack of moral compass become the most powerful country in…

American prison system is deeply problematic too, one which both parties has continually failed to reform. Perhaps CCP see themselves as guardians of a country, a system thousands of years old. In comparison the existence of the modern democratic West has been for a mere ephemeral duration, and look who likes to lecture whom..

I don't understand what a privatized prison system has to do anything with the rest of your argument which seems to be more of a rant than anything.

Democracy isn't new its older than communism. Democracy also took time to develop in the West. It's unfathomable to someone who has never been fed information that the Party didn't change.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#39

Post by loyukfai » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

moftz wrote: post #13

China is really betting on the media coverage helping the pro-China side. They control the narrative and the discussion in official channels but that doesn't mean they control everything. Hong Kong is insular enough that they could become something like Taiwan, de facto independent. I don't see major revolution in Beijing happening anytime soon.

Neither do I, unless the CCP can't keep the economic growth engine running.

Re: China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger

#40

Post by billfruit » Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

w_s_l wrote: post #38

billfruit wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American prison system is deeply problematic too, one which both parties has continually failed to reform. Perhaps CCP see themselves as guardians of a country, a system thousands of years old. In comparison the existence of the modern democratic West has been for a mere ephemeral duration, and look who likes to lecture whom..

I don't understand what a privatized prison system has to do anything with the rest of your argument which seems to be more of a rant than anything. Democracy isn't new its older than communism. Democracy also took time to develop in the West. It's unfathomable to someone who has never been fed information that the Party didn't change.

I mean Chinese civilization, not just communism.