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The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

jeffgeerling.com

231–240 of 293 posts

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#231

Apropos of the thread: https://www.seeedstudio.com/ICE-Tower-CPU-Cooling-Fan-for-Ra... (a fan for the CPU that is reminiscent of the first "big" Pentium fans). I asked on twitter if the RasPi had "jumped the shark" here, being sucked into territory it wasn't really designed for. As someone who has lived through the microcomputer revolution it is amazing to see the "$100 desktop" at this point of history. If we arbitr…

The giant heatsink seems like plain overkill, given the author of the article was able to stop it from throttling under stress tests with a much smaller and simpler fan install

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, in most cameras the factors are in fact accounted for by setting the emissivity factor, a reflected apparent temperature, the distance to the object and the relative humidity. Thermography is certainly not an straightforward "point and click" process...

As a once-infrared-astronomer, I can certainly confirm your statement: Thermography is certainly not a straightforward "point-and-click" process. Six years of grad school...

Sounds like a cool profession, what are you up to nowadays?

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#233

Apropos of the thread: https://www.seeedstudio.com/ICE-Tower-CPU-Cooling-Fan-for-Ra... (a fan for the CPU that is reminiscent of the first "big" Pentium fans). I asked on twitter if the RasPi had "jumped the shark" here, being sucked into territory it wasn't really designed for. As someone who has lived through the microcomputer revolution it is amazing to see the "$100 desktop" at this point of history. If we arbitr…

> That is a huge step function to try to absorb.

It is a bit on the Heaviside, isn't it?

I'll show myself out.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#234
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it need to be either/or? The way I look at it, every single hobbyist, retropie, dust collector, etc is just enabling the scale that allows them to deliver the hardware at the price point. If 100% of Pi went into schools, the foundation would likely have dried up 4 years ago. We might not be the target market, but we enable it. We enable the development, the third-party/after-market, we provide the community.…

Because the two goals are somewhat incompatible. The more powerful they make the hardware to please one crowd the less they can meet the "low power", and to a lesser extent price (need a fan now, etc), goals.

I'm not sure low power was ever a goal. They've chosen USB as the power source, for whatever reason, and fairly consistently managed to just scrape (or just miss) the power budget. I mean, this is a device with no power management (other than temperature throttling), no sleep states, etc. If low power was the goal, they've managed to put out a successful product in spite of themselves.

It feels to me like they've only ever had two solid targets. One is the price-point, and they've shed everything that stood, and the other has been a rather solid attachment to backwards compatibility. (It often feels like the model A only exists because their original claim a $25 computer, and the A means they technically stuck it - despite it being one of their less popular models).

I think another commenter hit the nail on the head though - the whole thing feels like an emotional attachment to the way computing was learnt in bedrooms in the late 80s / early 90s - especially the success of the BBC micros (which I believe the model A & B are named after). Hooking up turtle bots, sticking wires straight into parallel ports, makes mail merges feel like a hollow shell of computing. I think that's what the Pi is trying to bring back (in a manner that makes the computer itself cheap enough to be disposable, rather than some expensive relic that you're afraid to mess with).

(Side ramble: I learnt computing (at school) in the UK in the era directly after this. As strange as this will likely sound to anyone who isn't British, the era when various supermarkets kindly volunteered to replace all our beebs with nice new Windows PCs. We went from wiring weird and wonderful things into parallel ports, to seeing computers as these expensive things that "we" had worked hard for. They went from being tools to being appliances. They weren't to me messed with, modified and tortured - they were to run Claris and Publisher, and later Netscape. My work now owes more to replacing burnt out serial controllers in Amigas, than to anything I learnt at "high school" level computing. We spent a decade or two insulating students from any nuts & bolts understanding, and modern environments are getting worse, not better. So I see Arduino, Raspberry Pi, as the antidote to being taught "computing" on an iPad.)

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#235
post #66
post #6

So does the pi 3 if you stick it in a case, even with a heatsink. I was using a pi 3 with a heatsink in the official case to play a h265 movie (which will be software decoded on a pi3). After about 10 minutes I noticed it started dropping frames and it displayed the thermometer symbol in the top-right of the display. When I removed the top lid from the case, the temperature dropped enough for the thermometer icon to…

Flirc makes excellent passive cooling cases for RPis. Basically the entire shell is a heat sink. Works for me, all my little media boxes run happily with them, despite running 24/7.

Same here. I have 2 Flirc cases for the RPi 3b, and it keeps it happy. One is used for media the other for emulator.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#236
post #44

Quote: the metal casing helps spread that heat around It does, to a degree. But that is absolutely not what we are seeing in that IR picture. Shiny bare metal is a mirror at the wavelengths that thermal camera uses. So what you see on thermal image where wifi-module shield and CPU are is reflection of ambient (room) where this picture was taken. Try waving your hand around, you'll see it reflecting there too. To meas…

Physicist here, and I disagree. Where else could that radiation with ~10 micron wavelength at that intensity with that localized spatial profile from that particular direction be coming from?

Yes environment typically will have some residual "noise" at those wavelengths, which you can check its intensity and spatial profile by taking a "dark frame" if you're in a strange environment and are really suspicious, but it's hardly going to alter what you're seeing in any qualitative way. Assuming someone isn't sending a focused beam of exactly that size at exactly that spot at an exactly correct angle at that particular wavelength.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#237
post #66
post #6

So does the pi 3 if you stick it in a case, even with a heatsink. I was using a pi 3 with a heatsink in the official case to play a h265 movie (which will be software decoded on a pi3). After about 10 minutes I noticed it started dropping frames and it displayed the thermometer symbol in the top-right of the display. When I removed the top lid from the case, the temperature dropped enough for the thermometer icon to…

Flirc makes excellent passive cooling cases for RPis. Basically the entire shell is a heat sink. Works for me, all my little media boxes run happily with them, despite running 24/7.

If anyone is interested in putting in a bulk order for Flirc Pi4 cases to save on shipping, let me know. I am in the San Diego area in SoCal.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#238
post #117

They sell cases with heatsinks and fans for $10-$20. I would just recommend buying one of those versus modding one like the guy in the article did.

I feel like if I buy official parts, they shouldn't require modding to get the max performance out of the product. They should work without issue together. Currently you can barely get moderate performance with the official case. This article and mod are helpful, even if obvious, for people like me who bought an official case with my RPi4 expecting them to work well together.

But they do work without issue, until you start stressing the CPU. In the majority of normal workloads, you don't run into thermal throttling, especially if not using the official case.

Also, if you have the official case and want to do this mod - for a few bucks more than the cost of two "pi fans" (which run $8 on Amazon), you can get a well designed case with heat sinks and a fan.

I see very little reason to actually do this mod versus buying a properly designed case besides the urge to tinker.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#239
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was that accomplished? Extremely nice image!

Many IR cameras have actually two cameras, a normal optical one with high resolution (~10^3 x 10^3), and the IR one (microbolometer) which is low resolution (~10^2 x 10^2). They ensemble the two pictures later and produce these results.

I have the cheaper Seek imager, which just has a low res IR camera. Can’t afford the fancy tools where not needed! I mostly use it to check the house for air leaks and thermal issues.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#240
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the fan shim is insanely cool and I just bought one of these the moment that it was back in stock together with my Raspberry Pi 4. It also works on the Pi 3 and 2. Here's the link if anyone's interested: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim

Cool fan but it says "not heatsink compatible", so if you are like me and attached the heatsinks that came free with your Pi case, you will be out of luck.

Is it not possible to remove the heat sink?
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