The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan • Hacker News Board

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#221

Post by pslam » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:20 PM UTC

cyanoacry wrote: post #218

pslam wrote: post #146

This article is actually describing how the Raspberry Pi 4 does NOT need a fan. This is not the 1990s. It is perfectly acceptable and even advantageous to design for a high peak:normal load ratio, with thermal throttling. In this case, it allows for a compact, cheap, fanless design for the vast majority of users. There is no evidence the heat dissipated will impact lifespan. It is common for the components picked out…

> There is no evidence the heat dissipated will impact lifespan. I have to nitpick at this a little bit as a professional EE who works in high-reliability electronics. Wearout rates absolutely do depend on temperature (and thus heat), and thus the chips used here will have a shorter lifetime than those with active cooling. Now, whether that lifetime will be long enough for the common user is another question (maybe i…

Yes, wearout rate definitely depends on temperature, but without reference to any actual data, this is what I mean by "no evidence".

Is it reducing 10 year lifespan to 9 years? 9.99 years? 5 years? Was it 50 year lifespan? It's pointless conjecture.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#222

Post by Negitivefrags » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

geerlingguy wrote: post #28

BaconJuice wrote: post #20

Just a bit off-topic but what are you guys doing that you need to do CPU throttling? I just got a Pi4 and wondering if I'm missing out on some cool projects I can do with it :)

The Pi 4 is the first generation that's actually not horrible at running Kubernetes, so I'm mostly having fun with that (ongoing saga at www.pidramble.com).

We finally have enough performance that we can waste it with more layers. Hooray!

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#223

Post by galkk » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:25 PM UTC

Might be anecdotal, but some cases with fan on Amazon went to "will be delivered after some date" in timeframe between morning and $CURRENT_TIME

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#224

Post by burnte » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

kees99 wrote: post #44

Quote: the metal casing helps spread that heat around It does, to a degree. But that is absolutely not what we are seeing in that IR picture. Shiny bare metal is a mirror at the wavelengths that thermal camera uses. So what you see on thermal image where wifi-module shield and CPU are is reflection of ambient (room) where this picture was taken. Try waving your hand around, you'll see it reflecting there too. To meas…

He's measuring the temp of the board next to the CPU, not the shiny IHS on the CPU.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#225

Post by ja27 » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

inetsee wrote: post #209

unixhero wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get an Intel NUC

A quick look at Newegg shows an Intel NUC that includes a CPU, memory, and an SSD at over $500. I don't think so.

I put together a little Gigabyte Brix box (GB-BLCE-4105-BW) for $212 shipped. 2.5 GHz 4 core Celeron, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD. Not a bad little PC.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#226

Post by redwards510 » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:37 PM UTC

rvz wrote: post #13

seanhandley wrote: post #4

I can recommend Pimoroni's fan shim. They provide a python project that allows you to set temperature thresholds to kick the fan in so it's not on all the time. It's not silent but it's pretty quiet. https://github.com/pimoroni/fanshim-python

Indeed, the fan shim is insanely cool and I just bought one of these the moment that it was back in stock together with my Raspberry Pi 4. It also works on the Pi 3 and 2. Here's the link if anyone's interested: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim

Cool fan but it says "not heatsink compatible", so if you are like me and attached the heatsinks that came free with your Pi case, you will be out of luck.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#227

Post by SkyPuncher » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

inetsee wrote: post #209

unixhero wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get an Intel NUC

A quick look at Newegg shows an Intel NUC that includes a CPU, memory, and an SSD at over $500. I don't think so.

Flip side, I almost pulled the trigger on one from Amazon yesterday for $118. They had $500 options, but I didn't need it.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#228

Post by universenz » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

inetsee wrote: post #209

unixhero wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get an Intel NUC

A quick look at Newegg shows an Intel NUC that includes a CPU, memory, and an SSD at over $500. I don't think so.

I know right? People need to quit suggesting an Intel NUC as an alternative to $35 RPi.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#229

Post by the_pwner224 » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:56 PM UTC

throw20102010 wrote: post #205

amelius wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you advertise a product with certain specs, and the user can only use the full capability during a fraction of the time, then that is misleading.

It might be misleading, but it's not uncommon. Apple MacBook Pros have thermal throttled at high loads for the past several years. It has throttled for so long that reviewers were surprised that the latest version seems to be using a decent thermal paste and throttles much less. So if Apple got away with it for years on computers that mostly sold for over $2k, then I think the RPi foundation will probably get away wi…

If Apple can get away with it then the RPi will also get away with it, but it is still a highly deceptive and fraudulent practice.

I spent $2000 on a XPS 15 and peripherals two years ago; if I had known about the thermal throttling I would not have purchased it. Dell literally robbed me of a thousand dollars - had I known that all the 'ultrabook'-style laptops had throttling issues, I would have bought a cheaper and sturdier and higher-specced gaming laptop which beats the XPS in every category except battery life and Thunderbolt. Instead, I spent more and got a substantially worse product.

Collectively laptop manufacturers have defrauded people to the tune of hundreds of millions (even billions?) of dollars. That's not OK.

Re: The Raspberry Pi 4 needs a fan

#230

Post by ekianjo » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 11:06 PM UTC

inetsee wrote: post #209

unixhero wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get an Intel NUC

A quick look at Newegg shows an Intel NUC that includes a CPU, memory, and an SSD at over $500. I don't think so.

A used NUC with a Celeron CPU can be had for 70 usd these days and is way faster than any Raspberry Pi.