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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#81

Post by ummonk »

whoevercares wrote: post #60
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, what parent is saying is that there is a huge difference between a rich Chinese kid studying political science and a workin class Chinese kid studying computer science on a PhD stipend. The former has boomed in the last 10 years while the latter was pretty constant for the last 20+.

Working class Chinese family in many cities now could also afford a two year master program(e.g Stony Brook U only cost me about RMB 300k for the entire Master with a decent CS program). My family is just normal working class with yearly income about 100k RMB. It’s not quite accurate to attribute all masters to “Rich” because ordinary income has been flying in China

I mean, this speaks to the one child policy as well as the value put on education in Asia. From a western perspective having to spend 3x annual household income on a masters degree would be absurd.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#82

Post by newyankee »

programmertote wrote: post #63
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I see the trend in my coworkers at a big-four ad tech firm as well. At least a couple of them have gone home in the last six months (one of them had her H1B approved less than a year ago as well; and another one already is nearing her STEM OPT extension of 18 months). I came to the US in mid 2000 to study at a fairly well-known liberal arts college (with full scholarships). I worked at a start-up in SF after graduati…

The silver lining is may be at least you do not seem to be from India or China whose waiting period for GC is 70+ years for EB3 right now apparently

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#83

Post by jbay808 »

jonathankoren wrote: post #38
Causality1 wrote: post #13

We're quite far from the scale tipping in that direction, but it makes me curious about whether the US government has the legal authority to say "educating foreigners is no longer in the national interest, therefore it is no longer a valid reason to remain in the United States" and decimate the foreign student population essentially overnight.

The government can do whatever it wants when it comes to setting immigration laws. It's an enumerated power. F-1 (student) visas are already nonimmigration visas. After you graduate, you have a few months of "optional practical training" (OPT) and then you're expected to go home. Hopefully, you can get an H-1 ( another nonimmigration visa) to stay for at most six years, which is about how long it takes to get a Green…

You're not supposed to apply for a green card on a non-immigrant visa though.

I graduated from a top US university with an engineering degree (actually, rated the top university at the time). Felt like the federal government was looking for any excuse to accuse me of being an illegal immigrant and throw me out of the country, so I decided to go ahead and leave of my own accord.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#84

Post by asdfman123 »

roboys wrote: post #51
asdfman123 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably because there is a healthy tech industry in China and it's home. If could take classes in China and possibly get a job making 50% more there, I'd probably come back to the US instead. A 50% raise isn't enough to justify being half a world away from my family.

4 times less likely to get murdered in China than in USA. Sounds like a better place to raise a kid too.

Keep in mind there is a distinction between rich America and poor America. If you are not poor you have little risk of getting murdered.

I want to raise my kid in a place where you can speak out about human rights abuses and not censor yourself because the government is listening.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#85

Post by asdfman123 »

nostrademons wrote: post #46
asdfman123 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No want wants to live in that kind of environment? In the US, Trump says mean things about certain types of immigrants. In China, you can be jailed with no due process for speaking out about human rights abuses. Also, better hope you're not in a religious minority. Don't say anything bad about the government, because they're watching you!

Most people make decisions based on how the environment affects them personally. The type of Chinese immigrants who are likely to get Ph.Ds and work in high tech are generally not religious minorities (if they were, they likely wouldn't have gotten that far in the educational system). They're also not particularly interested in getting involved in politics or speaking out about human rights abuses. Usually if they ge…

I feel China's government embodies enlightened authoritarianism.

Many authoritarian governments of the past made the mistake of trying to tinker too hard with economics, with horrible results. China is run by technocrats who know how not to sabotage the money supply.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#86

Post by newyankee »

natthub wrote: post #48
jonathankoren wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government can do whatever it wants when it comes to setting immigration laws. It's an enumerated power. F-1 (student) visas are already nonimmigration visas. After you graduate, you have a few months of "optional practical training" (OPT) and then you're expected to go home. Hopefully, you can get an H-1 ( another nonimmigration visa) to stay for at most six years, which is about how long it takes to get a Green…

> six years, which is about how long it takes to get a Green Card Ha! Unless you're are an Indian or a Chinese, in which case it's more than 10 years (which is being quite optimistic)!!

My research says it is 70+ year for EB3 visas entered this year assuming nothing changes.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#87

Post by ummonk »

maximente wrote: post #32
duxup wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is having someone as a student, and then they leave ... beneficial? I don't have a position on this, I'm just wondering.

likely only for tenured professors and possibly universities. professors hold immense power and likely benefit greatly from someone motivated to finish + move back and earn massive sums relative to rest of population; the university i'm guessing benefits to some extent financially/prestige of said research group/professor. edit: losers are general public, whose taxes go to public universities who then train up a gene…

I thought taxpayers only subsidize in-state tuition?

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#89

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #21
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

This is just as true with Indian students. Most people don't know how hard, how expensive, and how long it takes for someone to become a naturalized citizen. Combined with hostile rhetoric towards immigrants - and staying away from politics as much as possible, this is a big factor and not always precisely targeted to "illegal" immigration, the US is just not as attractive for knowledge workers as it was 5-10 years a…

It's not as attractive for the two countries with the largest number of applicants.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#90

Post by Allower »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #34
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I know plenty of really bright, talented and hardworking Chinese grad students who have a preference to stay in the US but the current visa situation is appalling. RFEs (request for evidence) which were once rare have become standard practice, making the wait to start a new job go up by months, with lots of stressful uncertainty as to whether or not you will be allowed to stay in the US. There's lots of VC money in C…

Insane opportunities, yeah it is insane to want to live in an orwellian society
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