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Thaddeus Kosciusko

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Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#51

Post by dappcoder »

chewz wrote: post #43
chewz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Włodkowic strongly supported the idea of conciliarism and pioneered the notion of peaceful coexistence among nations – a forerunner of modern theories of human rights. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawe%C5%82_W%C5%82odkowic

In short Włodkowic argumented at 'International Tribunal' during the 1414 Concil of Constance that Teutonic Order cannot justify it's violence and conquest of neighbours just because they are pagans. That was some years before Columbus.. At that time it was customary for European knights to come as guest to Prussia and take part in military expeditions against pagans as a sort of hunting excercise (razzia). One of th…

sdfads333

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#52

Post by dappcoder »

chewz wrote: post #35
H8crilA wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish democracy was like MySpace or Altavista, good overall direction but then suddenly failed spectacularly, during Stanisław II Augustus times. He got steamrolled by Catherine the Great. The second iteration of democracy (like Facebook/Google) build on the other side of the Atlantic aged much much better. Also, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was a multicultural place (officially recognised languages: Polish, L…

Also Warsaw Confederation in 1573 was first European act granting freedom of religion. A year after and influenced by St. Bartheleme's Day Massacre and general climate of religious violence in Europe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Confederation

kjhhkkhhhhh

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#53

Post by bobthechef »

H8crilA wrote: post #33
chewz wrote: post #27

Most Amercans would be suprised to hear but US presidential election system had been influenced by Polish royal election rules. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_elections_in_Poland https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mr-president-how-and...

Polish democracy was like MySpace or Altavista, good overall direction but then suddenly failed spectacularly, during Stanisław II Augustus times. He got steamrolled by Catherine the Great. The second iteration of democracy (like Facebook/Google) build on the other side of the Atlantic aged much much better. Also, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was a multicultural place (officially recognised languages: Polish, L…

People overstate the catastrophic like they overstate the flaws of the liberum veto. Note that this system of government worked for hundreds (longer than most even remotely comparable states) of years and matured over time in precedential fashion. The royal elections were surprisingly civil and orderly. The distribution of power was according to principles of subsidiary. The 19th century provided historians an opportunity for overly critical assessments resulting from a combination of Poles looking for the causes behind the failure of their state and invaders rationalizing their partitioning of Poland.

The ultimate failure of the Polish state is complex, involving a confluence of factors including catastrophic invasions, uprisings, foreign meddling, and internal conflict that stifled necessary reforms to deal with all of these.

A good, short introduction to the development of the Polish state from the 10th century onward is Adam Zamoyski's "Poland: A History"[0].

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Poland-History-Adam-Zamoyski/dp/07818...

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#54

Post by bobthechef »

chewz wrote: post #39
H8crilA wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish democracy was like MySpace or Altavista, good overall direction but then suddenly failed spectacularly, during Stanisław II Augustus times. He got steamrolled by Catherine the Great. The second iteration of democracy (like Facebook/Google) build on the other side of the Atlantic aged much much better. Also, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was a multicultural place (officially recognised languages: Polish, L…

> Włodkowic strongly supported the idea of conciliarism and pioneered the notion of peaceful coexistence among nations – a forerunner of modern theories of human rights. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawe%C5%82_W%C5%82odkowic

Worth checking out also along those lines is Laurentius Goslicius:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wawrzyniec_Grzyma%C5%82a_Go%C5...

His book "De Optimo Senatore" was highly influential abroad including Britain. Apparently, parts of his writings were the inspiration for the character of Polonius in Hamlet.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#55

Post by bobthechef »

emmelaich wrote: post #46

> .. Kosciuszko. Nor can you spell it or pronounce it; ... Then the rest of the article misspells it by dropping the Z! As mentioned, it's also the name of Australia's highest mountain[0]. Named by the explorer Strzelecki. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kosciuszko

That's actually typical for the Americanized name.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#56

Post by 6d6b73 »

"The dude lived a metal life and I have no idea why there hasn’t been a movie made about him."

There are many historical figures that should have movies made about them. i.e Witold Pilecki who volunteered for Auschwitz - the whole team of the guys who decrypted Enigma (and I'm not talking about Brits.) - Rejewski, Zygalski and Rozycki - mathematicians of the Lwow School of Mathematics and their Scottish Book and many more.

But in reality there are thousands of scientists, explorers, soldiers, activits and politicians all of the planet, that deserve to be known by a wider audience, but they are being ignored by the Anglo-Saxons and their propaganda machine.

What are some of the people that deserve to be known by wider audience but are only known in your countries?

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#57

Post by bobthechef »

gambiting wrote: post #3

I'm curious why the hell is his name anglicised. It should be Tadeusz Kościuszko. In reverse it would be like writing Albert Einstein as Albert Ajsztain in Polish, because that's how it's pronounced. No one ever does this.

*Ajnsztajn

And actually many names have been Polonized throughout history. Maybe not so much modern names, hence Kosciuszko.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#58

Post by privethedge »

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/07/world/europe/kosciusko-be... > “Belarus did not even exist when he was born,” said Veslav Wychodzki, a retiree from Poland who traveled to Kosava recently to pay tribute to Kosciuszko. “This was Polish land. They only put up a statue to him last year and never really talked about him before.”

> Mr. Nesterchuk, the Belarus historian, said: “The Poles say he belongs to them. The Lithuanians, the Ukrainians say the same thing. The Americans, too.”

> “But I always say that Kosciuszko does not belong to anyone,” Mr. Nesterchuk added. “He belongs to the whole world as a true democrat and a fighter for freedom.”

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#59

Post by brokenkebab »

rkachowski wrote: post #7
gambiting wrote: post #3

I'm curious why the hell is his name anglicised. It should be Tadeusz Kościuszko. In reverse it would be like writing Albert Einstein as Albert Ajsztain in Polish, because that's how it's pronounced. No one ever does this.

In the exact same way that people say "Yuri Gagarin" instead of Ю́рий Гага́рин. I work with several Polish people who intentionally anglicise their names due to the phonetics being awkward / not existing in English (E.g. Tomasz Vs Thomas).The same with German and Chinese people - it's either for convenience or a best approximation.

It's absolutely not the same way, because Юрий is in different writing system. There's widely accepted tradition that names originally written with Latin letters are preserved as is in other languages using Latin letters (with exception of diacritical parts). Which makes a lot of sense, actually, because you at least know that's the same person/place whether it's in Hungarian, or French. And you can't enforce proper pronunciation anyway.

Re: Thaddeus Kosciusko

#60

Post by chewz »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #42
chewz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second iteration of democracy (like Facebook/Google) build on the other side of the Atlantic aged much much better. As Chou Enlai famously quiped about the outcome of French Revolution - "It's too early to tell if it was positive or not".

I enjoy that quip a lot, but some spoilsport wrote up that it was actually a translation mishap in the interview, and he was referring to the May 1968 insurrection (just a few years past at the time). Rats.

Thanks for the input.

I meant that US Democracy is still younger then Commonwealth political system was when it had started to turn into anarchy and had been abused by plutocracy and foreign powers.

So Americans beware of Russia meddling in your elections... We had been there in XVIII century.. :-)

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