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Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

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Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#121

Post by zeusk »

chvid wrote: post #109
rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Yes. It is a good idea to have Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure. First. The allegations against Huawei are BS driven by internal US politics. Secondly where does this weird nationalism lead us? To a world where there is no Chinese router or chipset in American infrastructure. And by extension no American router or chipset in Chinese infrastructure. That is a world which is a lot poorer and filled with…

> First. The allegations against Huawei are BS driven by internal US politics.

Did you even read the linked paper?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#122

Post by microcolonel »

Barrin92 wrote: post #107
microcolonel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the perspective of individual liberty it seems better to be subject to surveillance by someone who doesn't have legal authority over you than be subject to someone who does. Well, this idea is false. The CCP has power in the U.S. over people they surveil, through the information gained with that surveillance. It doesn't take much to compromise ordinary people, if you can watch a lot of what they do. > I'm not…

Since when is the Chinese government in the business of compromising ordinary Americans? It's a daily occurence for marginalised people in the US to get arrested for minor drug offences, or be stuck in airport security or police checks, or more and more relevant facial recognition systems. What the average American does not need to worry about is the Chinese coming after him because he smoked pot on the weekend. The…

> What the average American does not need to worry about is the Chinese coming after him because he smoked pot on the weekend. The primary threat to American civil liberties is their own government, not distant foreign ones.

Sure, your own government is responsible for not trampling on your civil liberties; that doesn't mean it's somehow not worse to be also surveilled by the Chinese government, in addition to your own.

When China is spying on you, that doesn't mean the U.S. isn't; it means they both are.

As far as I can tell, your argument is: Because governments in the U.S. don't recognize some things you consider civil liberties, like smoking cannabis recreationally, you don't care that the Chinese government is also spying on you, and you don't think the U.S. government should take a stance on that spying?

It seems pretty incoherent to me.

> Since when is the Chinese government in the business of compromising ordinary Americans?

Roughly since they have had intelligence services. It's not like the Soviets invented Kompromat, and it's not as though they were the last to use it.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#123

Post by chvid »

zeusk wrote: post #121
chvid wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is a good idea to have Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure. First. The allegations against Huawei are BS driven by internal US politics. Secondly where does this weird nationalism lead us? To a world where there is no Chinese router or chipset in American infrastructure. And by extension no American router or chipset in Chinese infrastructure. That is a world which is a lot poorer and filled with…

> First. The allegations against Huawei are BS driven by internal US politics. Did you even read the linked paper?

Yes. I did. Honestly it is rubbish. Secret methodology. No baseline comparison (how does Huawei compare to other similar sized companies?). This is not social science. It is politics.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#124

Post by StreamBright »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

>> but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

It is a market decision. From the security point of view most vendors are the same.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#125

Post by whyenot »

user00012-ab wrote: post #118

I find it hard to take anyone seriously who posts their "breaking research" as a series of tweets; find the correct platform that fits your message; if you are a 10 year old girl, then a series of tweets might be fine.

If you have a lot of followers, twitter can be a very effective loudspeaker even with the character limit. By the way, 10 year olds don’t tend to use twitter — boys or girls (why is it so often young girls who are held up as a negative example?)

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#126

Post by aristophenes »

Barrin92 wrote: post #76
b_tterc_p wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting downvoted but it’s an important sentiment. You can argue that America and China are equally bad (I disagree), but regardless, you can’t really argue that America and China are equally bad to Americans.

I'm not sure it's true though, paradoxically if you're an American subject to Chinese surveillance or vice versa you're probably better off than being under domestic surveillance, because at least you're out of the respective jurisdiction. Like, what is Huawei going to do if it has information on you and you live in Boston, compared to the local police? From the perspective of individual liberty it seems better to be…

> Like, what is Huawei going to do if it has information on you and you live in Boston, compared to the local police?

It could to take what your local industries you are researching and give it to a Chinese company that will take it into the international market. Is that not harmful? Do you think the US government would similarly take your work and send it to a Chinese competitor before it is made public?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#127

Post by MisterTea »

Arguing about which nation is spying on you better is like arguing about which cancer causing carcinogen is better for you. It all sucks and isn't going away anytime soon.

China will spy on you just as much as USA/Russia/UK/Israel/ad nauseum... if given the chance. So enjoy staring at your shiney tech and remember that any number of nation states are most likely staring back at you. Enjoy modern life.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#128

Post by Barrin92 »

microcolonel wrote: post #122
Barrin92 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is the Chinese government in the business of compromising ordinary Americans? It's a daily occurence for marginalised people in the US to get arrested for minor drug offences, or be stuck in airport security or police checks, or more and more relevant facial recognition systems. What the average American does not need to worry about is the Chinese coming after him because he smoked pot on the weekend. The…

> What the average American does not need to worry about is the Chinese coming after him because he smoked pot on the weekend. The primary threat to American civil liberties is their own government, not distant foreign ones. Sure, your own government is responsible for not trampling on your civil liberties; that doesn't mean it's somehow not worse to be also surveilled by the Chinese government, in addition to your o…

I simply responded to the point literally made in the post above which was

>you can’t really argue that America and China are equally bad to Americans.

Yes, the American government can be a 'bigger bad' for Americans than the Chinese government. And it's also not incoherent in a general context, because using China or some other cold war enemy as a strawman to divert attention from domestic civil rights violation is as relevant as it has always been in the US. The Soviet Union was no danger to ordinary Americans either (well nukes aside), because by definition ordinary Americans are.. well ordinary and entirely uninteresting.

Instead of falling in line with the US government circus of blaming China, Americans would do well to pay close attention to their own government. As another poster pointed out, one of the primary reasons for this in the 5G arena is companies struggling to compete with Huawei.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#129

Post by mrtksn »

cglace wrote: post #81
mrtksn wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please go to Google maps, zoom out and google some label that you see. Stuff like “France”, “Turkey”, “Poland”. The results will surprise you.

Ah, cool. However, you’re example seems a bit Eurocentric. Not to mention that the parent, as well as the rest of the thread, was talking about how this compares to the USA. So I have no clue how bringing Turkey into the discussion would make much sense.

Why does it need to be US-centric? The exercise that I suggested is intended as a way to give you a perspective. Beleive it or not, not everyone lives in the USA and not everyone is US citizen and not everyone is obligated to put aside their own needs and act for the US interests.

This issue is relevant to non-US persons and countries because the USA is actively trying to prevent Huawei from doing business in these countries.

The US-centric views are so prominent on the HN that sometimes I wonder if ever anyone at the silicon valley intended to "Make the World a better place". How can you make the world a better place if you cannot recognise that a world beyond the USA exists? It's even in your statistic! Turkey or Sweden is not simply some data points, they are real countries, allies of the USA, with their own interests.

The Europeans are often accused of being anti-American but maybe that is not the case, maybe it's just that Europeans every once in a while need to protect their own interests and that is perceived as treason.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#130

Post by zeroxfe »

microcolonel wrote: post #101
geofft wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole. I think we should do what's best for the world, not what's best for Americans, if those two are in conflict. I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world, and I think it has little enough value to Americans that I'm willing to abandon it. (I think you can construct an argument that America treats the rest of t…

> So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole. Being able to say that sort of thing with a straight face is the tremendous privilege of being an American. > I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world In a vacuum I would not promote them, but in a counterintelligence scenario, I side with U.S. and Canadian intelligence services over the PLA, 100%. The t…

> Being able to say that sort of thing with a straight face is the tremendous privilege of being an American.

I think this is a really important point. It's hard to be rational and idealistic when you're under the stresses of scarcity and oppression.

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