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Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

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Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#71

Post by bildung »

geofft wrote: post #48
avereveard wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The thing about whataboutism is that it was correct . It was only a logical fallacy in the eyes of US jingoists who didn't want to admit that, actually, the US had tons of human rights violations and the US vs. USSR conflict was not a conflict of good vs. evil. When both A and B do a thing X, there are two potential logically sound conclusions: either that X is bad and both A and B are in the wrong, or that it's not…

Yes, it's a pity most people don't understand this.

The idea actually is a valid concept in justice, but only within the realms you posted: If person A does something illegal and then tries to justify the behaviour X with "But everyone does this!", then this is not a valid argument, because either X is illegal or not.

Whataboutism as invented by the economist, though, is just rhetoric nonsense. The USSR was perfectly right in highlighting the human rights atrocities of the US in response to accusations of the US against them. That doesn't make the accusations go away, but it correctly exposes the bigotry.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#72

Post by geofft »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #68
microcolonel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, China is willing to be more evil to Americans than the U.S. is to Americans .

This is getting downvoted but it’s an important sentiment. You can argue that America and China are equally bad (I disagree), but regardless, you can’t really argue that America and China are equally bad to Americans.

So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole. I think we should do what's best for the world, not what's best for Americans, if those two are in conflict. I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world, and I think it has little enough value to Americans that I'm willing to abandon it.

(I think you can construct an argument that America treats the rest of the world better than China, though. I don't think I believe it right now but I could be convinced.)

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#74

Post by zxcmx »

MiroF wrote: post #26

wild - this thread appears to be brigaded by pro CCP posters

You can be skeptical of the narrative without being pro CCP.

The Huawei “backdoors” everyone made a fuss about were neither worse nor better than the dozens of bugs and backdoors in every other brand that have been found over the years. Mostly typical of poor SDLC of companies that primarily do hardware not software.

Any large company is going to employ people who have served in various security services just by law of large numbers.

For stuff like Telecom you also actively need people experienced with gov security standards to help you comply with them!

Former experience with an agency can be super helpful with this. At least thats why several companies I’ve worked for (in FVEY countries) have hired from services - not so much for skills or connections but because they understand the compliance and certification processes.

Not sure if people realise there are probably 50 Word, Powerpoint and compliance jockeys for every TAO operative in those places.

I’m ok with the Huawei ban tbh but much of the press surrounding it seems bunk to me, frankly. I think I can recognise propaganda when I see it, at least when it relates to my field.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#75

Post by hih0 »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Every thread that paints China in a negative light on HN always follow the same pattern:

- USA whataboutism

- Mass flagging (resulting in the story getting knocked off the frontpage despite having a great upvote, comment and submission ratio)

- Comments negative towards China receive 1-5 quick downvotes before slowly climbing back to normal again

It’s really unfortunate that an otherwise well moderated community is so easily defeated by this abuse, and that there appear to be nothing being done to fix it despite many obvious and simple solutions (ignore flags and downvotes by those who abuse them, ban shills that resort to whataboutism from posting in threads containing /China/Chinese keywords).

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#76

Post by Barrin92 »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #68
microcolonel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, China is willing to be more evil to Americans than the U.S. is to Americans .

This is getting downvoted but it’s an important sentiment. You can argue that America and China are equally bad (I disagree), but regardless, you can’t really argue that America and China are equally bad to Americans.

I'm not sure it's true though, paradoxically if you're an American subject to Chinese surveillance or vice versa you're probably better off than being under domestic surveillance, because at least you're out of the respective jurisdiction.

Like, what is Huawei going to do if it has information on you and you live in Boston, compared to the local police?

From the perspective of individual liberty it seems better to be subject to surveillance by someone who doesn't have legal authority over you than be subject to someone who does. I'm not sure the American prison population or minority groups have to fear a foreign government more than their own.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#77

Post by dtornabene »

MiroF wrote: post #26

wild - this thread appears to be brigaded by pro CCP posters

no, its just an absolutely bonkers thread. The idea that Huwawei is some kind of shocking threat that needs to be fought because chinese spooks work there is embarrassing. American spooks and ex-spooks dominate in US communications technology firms. I'm an american, born and bred in Texas. I have no love, whatsoever for the CCP, but its a gross orientalist obsession to see China as somehow singularly malevolent.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#78

Post by FakeComments »

hih0 wrote: post #75
rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Every thread that paints China in a negative light on HN always follow the same pattern: - USA whataboutism - Mass flagging (resulting in the story getting knocked off the frontpage despite having a great upvote, comment and submission ratio) - Comments negative towards China receive 1-5 quick downvotes before slowly climbing back to normal again It’s really unfortunate that an otherwise well moderated community is s…

dang is too busy censoring the narrative by whining about decorum to deal with his site becoming a infowar.

I always wonder how much of the censorship investigated at major tech companies is caused by insular communities like HN, where the engineers hang out, practicing that same kind of narrative based censorship under decorum pretenses.

Clip from the recent hearing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ik_kzn3etsE

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#79

Post by thecyrak »

yorwba wrote: post #21

So this research is based on a subset of 590 million or more CVs that were leaked by Chinese recruitment platforms. The author uses keywords like "华为", "Huawei", "People's Liberation Army" and "PLA" to identify people who worked for multiple institutions. That seems like a great dataset for some statistical analysis, but unfortunately we aren't even told how large the subsets are. (The figure of 590 million is from a…

This article would benefit from the publication of the full dataset, there are no clear evidence in support of his claims IMO. I'm not supporting either of both party, I'm just a little bit skeptical without the full dataset. The paper is almost useless and the article is behind a paywall.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#80

Post by geofft »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #70
geofft wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, the US government would never violently expand its borders and encourage settlers from the majority race, oppress the existing people with police brutality, and track people through their smartphones.

these points are all out of a reasonable time frame or far exaggerated against American government vs the Chinese government Like, yeah, we have police brutality, and it’s a real problem. But did we crush a bunch of student protestors into human pancakes and then forbid anyone from talking about it? No.

Did you know about the Jackson State massacre or the Orangeburg massacre, in both of which the police killed college and high-school students? Or the 1985 police bombing of a residential neighborhood in Philadelphia that killed six adults and five children and destroyed 65 houses?

The US doesn't need to suppress people from talking. There's enough social control that people don't talk in the first place. The information is all out there and technically public, which against the US populace is more effective in making sure people don't think of the police as they should.

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