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The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

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Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#42

The authors seem to have a background in economics, does that really fit the research topic of that paper?

One of the sources: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

>> This finding implies that individuals with genetic predispositions for an earlier AFB had a reproductive advantage and that natural selection operated not only in historical, but also in contemporary populations. The observed postponement in the AFB across the past century in Europe contrasts with these findings, suggesting an evolutionary override by environmental effects and underscoring that evolutionary predictions in modern human societies are not straight forward. Yeah, so basically we got a simple model by two economists vs. decades of empirical data?

It'd be funny if it wouldn't sound like a scientists version of the "immigrants will have a lot of children and replace us" lie.

Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#43

The authors seem to have a background in economics, does that really fit the research topic of that paper?

A lot of people love to chime in about "genetics" or "heritability" despite having no background in actual genetics (no, evopsych or behavioral "genetics" don't count) and publish in low-impact factor journals that are virtually unknown in the actual genetics community (or derided as a joke, like plos one). I'm not sure what to make of this paper to be honest.

Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#44
In rural societies, children are productive members of the workforce and the care of the aged depends on having surviving children. This encourages large families.

In urban societies, children are expensive to rear and educate until they can become productive, and the care of the aged depends on social institutions. This encourages small families.

However, if urban societies socialize the cost of rearing and educating children, then that disincentive will be removed and families may become larger. Ethnic subgroups with strong extended families and religious solidarity tend to have larger families, even in urban settings.

Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#45

This is ridiculous. The replacement fertility rate to maintain population before modern medicine could be closer to ten than two not so long ago. War, famine, disease, accidents, and infant mortality made it so surviving until you were old enough to start having your own children was rare and women were often pregnant or nursing continuously as long as they were fertile. The premise of heritable fertility driving pop…

> The premise of heritable fertility driving population and reproduction rates in humans is really far off. Yes, until reliably accessible contraception fertility was driven by the desire to have sex. > If it were true fertility rates could not possibly have dropped so far in so few generations after modern medicine and the insane reduction in violent death rates seen in the last thousand years. This assumes no chang…

I agree, however this doesn't necessarily mean that average fertility will rise again. The environment could keep changing faster than the genes can adapt. Also "desire to have children" might be difficult to encode in DNA so genetic adaptation to the availability of contraceptives might be really slow.

Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#46
Some anecdotal data.

My father's parents had 8 surviving children.

My mother's parents had 8 surviving children.

My parents had 4 surviving children.

I have 4 children.

My siblings have, on average, 3 children, and will probably have 3.5 over time.

My cousin's have on average 3.5 children.

Grandparents: Asian.

Parents: Asian and lived in Middle East half their life.

Me and siblings: Living primarily in Middle East.

Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#47

If this is true, then how do they explain population stabilization in, e.g., Europe, and other developed areas? Why shouldn't what worked for Europe work for the rest of the world?

Well for one thing Europe relies on immigrants to keep it's population from declining and if the whole world becomes like Europe in this regard we're gonna quickly run out of immigrants.

ETA: I see from your other comment that you meant "stopped growing" so my comment doesn't really apply.

Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#48

I have always wondered whether something like this could be observed. I wonder, shouldn't this be already observable? I would look not at the median/mean fertility, but on the outliers on the upper end. If the share increases/becomes more expressed in social groups that are not associated with a large number of children otherwise, one should see indicators that the theory is has some thruth. Also, we are talking abou…

This study (https://www.pnas.org/content/114/5/E727) measured the speed at which selection against cognitive ability is occuring in the Icelandic population (they measured this genotypically rather than phenotypically). The rate at which it occurs is meaningful on the scale of our lifespans. Same is probably true for fertility rates, but as fertility is being selected for directly (rather than the indirect effect on cognitive ability) it's probably even more rapid.

Then this study more directly measured fertility's rate of evolution: https://www.pnas.org/content/115/1/151. They used UK Biobank data (genetic data from 157,807 female and 115,902 male unrelated samples). They found the 'Age at First Birth' is the most strongly selected trait in the British population. So in the future we can look forward to a world filled with teenage mums.

That this is not obvious to everyone is just a testiment to how little people understand about evolution.

Re: The heritability of fertility makes world population stabilization unlikely

#49

This is ridiculous. The replacement fertility rate to maintain population before modern medicine could be closer to ten than two not so long ago. War, famine, disease, accidents, and infant mortality made it so surviving until you were old enough to start having your own children was rare and women were often pregnant or nursing continuously as long as they were fertile. The premise of heritable fertility driving pop…

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