Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#571

Post by cglace » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #564

cglace wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, you can buy something and not enjoy it. Two, you can be given the computer by your employer and not like it. Three, you can not like the current model but buy it anyway because you want to stick with the Mac ecosystem. I’ve been in numerous meetings where everyone is complaining about their new mpb while others in the meeting saying they are going to hold onto their older models as long as they can. Finally, the…

Four, people actually like them and have had no issues with them. Why is that so hard to conceive for some people when they dislike something, that their opinion isn't universal? It can't be. If this was a fair discussion, the users sharing their positive experiences wouldn't be reflex-downvoted.

I didn’t say some don’t. I just believe the design is highly polarizing among the apple faithful.

The reason “we” get so mad is that “we” feel there isn’t really a good option for an apple laptop when we want to give them our money.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#572

Post by photojosh » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

tga wrote: post #538

electrichead wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did exactly this a year ago but one caveat to note is that if you're using an external monitor, the video card in this one doesn't support a good resolution. I'm stuck with 1080p.

"With OS X Yosemite 10.10.3 and later, most SST 4K (3840 x 2160) displays are supported at 60Hz on these Mac computers: MacBook Air (Early 2015) and later MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015) and later MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) and later" https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206587 Earlier years will only do 30Hz, which is fully usable for development/office work.

Note the "SST 4K" criteria. I have a late 2013 15" MBP that drives 4K at 60 Hz, but it is an MST "multi-screen transport" display (which requires enabling on the monitor menu). Don't know if they're made anymore. Mine is a Dell UP2414Q.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#573

Post by photojosh » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:31 PM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #515

electrichead wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did exactly this a year ago but one caveat to note is that if you're using an external monitor, the video card in this one doesn't support a good resolution. I'm stuck with 1080p.

1080p is not fine enough? How much information are you used to having on screen at a time? How much text, for example?

When doing photography work, you can look at image thumbnails and actually judge sharpness and colour directly off them. And when filling the screen, you can have a much better idea of how they will look in print.

As for text, I've been able to use tiny font sizes and increase the information density since hi-DPI screens— my eyes are good for it. Ahh, iPhone 4 and retina MBP... they were astounding tech at that time.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#574

Post by photojosh » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #463

dmix wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple gets rid of the TouchBar + fixes the keyboard that'd eliminate 90% of the complaints against Macbook Pros.

Well, not really 90%. The trackpad is too big and introduce false positive that to some user is above threshold. I don't need such a large track pad for christ sake. The Display cable, while Apple making is 1cm longer, will only make it last a year or two more. That is 3 - 4 years of Display Lifespan. I hardly call this durable. The Thunderbolt and USB-C design is a bag of hurt, the amount of short circuit , logic bo…

I've not had a laptop with Touch Bar, but I can imagine making the trackpad smaller, then having the Touch Bar and the F-keys would be amazing. What do you think?

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#575

Post by PunksATawnyFill » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

zachberger wrote: post #542

andrei_says_ wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could buy a 2015 MacBook Pro and upgrade to rock solid keyboard, sane-sized trackpad, MagSafe, hdmi, USB ports and an SD card port. It’s not thin enough to slice salami but I am a vegetarian so that’s not a big deal.

What's wrong with the large trackpad?

Yep, the large trackpad is another design blunder. The heels of your hands are resting on it much of the time, resulting in the cursor suddenly jumping off to another part of the screen while you're typing.

Even dumber: Apple didn't make it work with the Pencil. WTF? Now THAT would be far more useful than the emoji bar.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#576

Post by b3b0p » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

jen20 wrote: post #168

b3b0p wrote: post #161

I think I'm definitely in the minority here on this community, but I actually don't mind the keyboard and TouchBar. The keyboard, although not as good as my Thinkpad, is far superior to many still and not bad. The problem I have with the keyboard is that it's not a user replaceable part and is nigh impossible to replace. Since it's the most used component arguably and wears and has moving parts and is exposed to the…

We likely are in the minority, but I find the 2016-19 era MacBook Pro to be the only laptop I can comfortably type on all day without triggering RSI pain. I also make extensive use of the Touch Bar. I will think twice about buying an updated machine.

I won't think twice, I'll be jumping right in on the new one, I think at least. Assuming it only gets better from here on out. I'm still deathly scared of the battery becoming worthless as well as my keys stop working reliably. The 'L' right now on my 2017/2018 MacBook Pro might need an Apple Store visit soon and I have had a keyboard cover on it since the split second I took it out of the box. I don't feel safe without the cover until the keyboard is a replaceable part again.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#577

Post by ralphc » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

acranox wrote: post #506

iamben wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still using my MBA from mid 2013. It's a wonderful thing. Battery is "replace soon" but it's mostly plugged in. It's battered and bruised, but still fast enough. I've been debating a change for a while and figured at the start of the year I'd wait to see if they were going to ditch the bf keyboard if they release a new MBA. Super glad I waited, fingers crossed I get the same life out of the next one! Say what you…

FWIW, you can get a replacement battery for these for under $100. https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Mac It's not super easy to replace, but if you're comfortable with a screw driver, it shouldn't pose much of a challenge, and the instruction from ifixit are great. I'm still holding tight to my 2012 MBP, but it's got a replacement battery, and a roomier SSD to breathe some new life into it.

If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, the Batteries + Bulbs stores have computer services & will do it for you (for a fee of course)

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#578

Post by IshKebab » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

pault wrote: post #406

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This app was released recently: https://pock.dev/ It puts the dock in your touchbar. It's the first time in the 9 months I've had this laptop where I've actually gone "ok, this is useful" and I am actually using it. I now have the dock auto hide and I mostly use the touch bar to open apps. That said, I'd still prefer they ditched the touchbar in favor of function keys. I'd be happy if they shrunk the ridiculous size…

Personally, while I have never once used the touchbar, I do think the ability for apps to display contextual function keys has a lot of use cases. I would be happy if they released physical keys with little oled screens on them, like that old Optimus keyboard. Apparently it was garbage but the tech has come a long way in ten years.

Apps can display contextual functions on the screen! The main problem with the touchbar is that you never look at it. It's not discoverable.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#579

Post by pcurve » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:48 PM UTC

adt2bt wrote: post #544

rando4321 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's seemed wildly obvious to me that Ive, whatever good work he did under Jobs, did horrible work without Jobs to constrain him. I hope that Apple returns to making quality hardware without Ive present.

Outside of the keyboard fiasco what else has Apple designed that’s so bad? I quite like Face ID, the latest gen iPad Pro, and even the new Mac mini, and Mac Pro. Sure the keyboards were bad, but like it or not Apple has a pretty obvious goal to get MacBooks as thin and light as possible. At some point they needed a switch from the existing keyboard design to make it thinner.

iOS 7 with zero affordance was slap in the face. It was epitome of form over function. Unfortunately the entire joined the bandwagon and it took yeas to dial back and undo the damage and or people just got used to it.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#580

Post by GordonS » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

I also have the first (13") MBP model to ship with a touchbar, which is also the only Mac I've ever had.

TBH, I think it's put me off Macs for life. While I haven't had a hardware failure, the keyboard is simply horrible - there isn't nearly enough key travel or feedback, and swapping useful physical keys for a useless touchpad is completely pointless - I have a cheap 13" netbook kicking around which has a far superior keyboard!

After having Macbook aficionados harp on for yeara about how wonderful Macbook keyboards are, I feel cheated.

I wish Apple would stop valuing thinness above all else - it's important, but there are diminishing returns. We've got the point where I don't want it to be any thinner - I want ports, good battery life and good heat dissipation (my MBP is quiet, but it gets bloody hot!)