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Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

wired.com

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Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#111

Post by zaroth »

darkpuma wrote: post #63
cortesoft wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does the first sale doctrine not have any teeth at all? What is to stop companies from throwing a license on everything they sell, making the first sale doctrine meaningless? Could a bookseller add a license to a physical book, and suddenly you can't sell it or lend it out?

> "Could a bookseller add a license to a physical book, and suddenly you can't sell it or lend it out? " Probably. I mean, they're already selling physical items laden with DRM (DVD/bluray), presumably in those cases they are selling you "a license to watch the disk." The ability to restrict first sale of DRM'd movies is probably on their TODO list I'd wager, or their list of greatest regrets. Incidentally, years ago…

The actual answer appears to be that you can sell add-on digital content which is licensed only for sale with the physical item, and that’s OK. But you cannot add license terms to the physical book itself, the book can be resold freely. That’s recently been affirmed by the Supreme Court.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#112

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cheerlessbog wrote: post #61
pmlnr wrote: post #56

I'm genuinely curious - what is the "light" side of DRM?

I can pay $10 a month to listen to any song anywhere. I assume it would cost more if I could trivially download them and stop paying. For me that is something positive. But I'm well aware in this case that I'm not purchasing any long term licenses.

I think you may have it backwards -- it was trivial to download and listen to music and movies (Napster, Popcorntime, etc.) -- which provided pressure to produce low cost, high availability media sources. People in general want to support artists/creators and be law-abiding. Once the media corps provided easy, reasonable cost, ways to get enough of the media then people shied away from the copyright infringement that had otherwise become the easiest way to consume such media.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#113

Post by zaroth »

ssivark wrote: post #12
nathantotten wrote: post #2

> Microsoft will refund customers in full for what they paid, plus an extra $25 if they made annotations or mark-ups. Doesn’t seem all that nefarious. Get your money back, order the paperbacks. No DRM issues again.

And what about the hours of effort put into reading, annotating, and jotting down notes on the ebook? (Typical of serious reading/research) That is worth way more than $25 -- MS is robbing people of the value they tried to create/store for their future selves. What use is a "platform" if it can't support that?

This happens every week for people using some SaaS product that gets cancelled.

DRM is content as a service, and by definition, all DRM will either be cracked or will become inaccessible eventually with probability approach 1 over time.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#114

Post by pbhjpbhj »

13of40 wrote: post #68
behringer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes Barnes & Noble break and enter my house and take off with my bookshelves. Oh wait, nevermind, that's never actually happened.

A better analogy: Barnes and Noble sets up a reading room down the street where you can pay a discounted amount to read books rather than buy them. One day you stop by and the place is boarded up, but the guy outside apologizes and explains that they had to close because it wasn't making enough money, then he gives you a full refund plus $25.

Discounted? Ebooks cost more than paperbacks in many cases.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#115

Post by pbhjpbhj »

lsc wrote: post #110
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why copyright should only be granted on things that don't have DRM, or where a system is in place to release the un-limited copies when support of licensed copies ends. We should allow licensing, but only if the companies allow the benefit of that - perpetual replication allowing goods to never fail - to accrue with the licensees.

Yeah, the point is to encourage creation; I agree that there should be some requirement that you must distribute a work to keep that copyright.

Encouraging creation is part of the deal, preserving culture, and enabling wider education were also parts of the deal -- Queen Anne (or her advisers) seem to have really valued the availability of literature for the people (or at least the priveleged people with access to the BL and Uni libraries).

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#116

Post by vangelis »

13of40 wrote: post #68
behringer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes Barnes & Noble break and enter my house and take off with my bookshelves. Oh wait, nevermind, that's never actually happened.

A better analogy: Barnes and Noble sets up a reading room down the street where you can pay a discounted amount to read books rather than buy them. One day you stop by and the place is boarded up, but the guy outside apologizes and explains that they had to close because it wasn't making enough money, then he gives you a full refund plus $25.

That's not as all the right scenario. Imagine Barnes and Noble 'sold' you their books for basically retail price, then comes around and throws them into the incinerator, but at least they gave you a return.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#117

Post by techslave »

olliej wrote: post #42
ChrisLomont wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right sale doctrine doesn’t apply to products like these; these are licenses to use. If they were first sale doctrine products, you could sell your goods on secondary markets, which you cannot.

The button says buy and purchase. Not rent or lease. If it was honest and said that I suspect fewer people would buy them. Sorry, license them.

but you are buying. a license.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#118

Post by Mindwipe »

guitarbill wrote: post #80
13of40 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better analogy: Barnes and Noble sets up a reading room down the street where you can pay a discounted amount to read books rather than buy them. One day you stop by and the place is boarded up, but the guy outside apologizes and explains that they had to close because it wasn't making enough money, then he gives you a full refund plus $25.

i don't think this holds. ebooks are often the same price as paperbacks, and you still have to buy them individually. okay, they're refunding people, which is a decent enough move (still inconvenient though). presumably, they didn't do it out of the kindness of their own heart, but to avoid controversy/lawsuits, what with public opinion slowly swinging away from DRM and towards right to repair.

> ebooks are often the same price as paperbacks

Not really.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#119

Post by xg15 »

> And because of digital rights management—the mechanism by which platforms retain control over the digital goods they sell—you have no recourse

I feel this is actually the relevant point - and just a sign of the things to come.

What's done with systems like DRM - but what is also directly integrated into many new products - is the ability of a producer to essentially keep full control over a product throughtout its whole lifetime - in particular, even after it was sold.

You can see this trend in a lot of different areas: IoT, connected cars, game consoles and games that must always have an internet connection, subscription-only software, etc.

I believe, consumer protections are not even remotely compared to this kind of model.

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