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Microsoft's Linux Kernel

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Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#471

Post by asveikau »

mycall wrote: post #468
asveikau wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BSD lost for not being popular People used to say that BSD lost because of the ambiguous copyright status of the early 90s, allowing Linux to glide in unopposed as the "free unix-like os for PCs". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Laboratories,_Inc.... . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Software_Distribution...

While others say the GPL license is what created an ecosystem, whereby the BSD-3 won't create an ecosystem of same quality.

It'd also be fair to say *BSD development is more centralized ("cathedral-like" to borrow from ESRs 1990s work) and that may have some repercussions in development speed.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#472

Post by imetatroll »

jasode wrote: post #350
goodcanadian wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing this angst over whether Linux will ever be ready on the desktop. Well, I've been using it exclusively for something like 15 years.

>I keep seeing this angst over whether Linux will ever be ready on the desktop. Well, I've been using it exclusively for something like 15 years. >For most purposes, it has been ready for years.[...] Most people, however, could switch to one of many Linux distributions and be just as productive if not moreso. If "most people" includes non-technical users, I doubt they could switch to Linux without difficulties. E.g.…

I have been watching netflix on linux for the past couple of years using Chrome. Install. Just works.

Gaming is still very game dependent. Think of it like a console. Some "exclusives" just wont run.

If someone is using their computer to surf, write emails, watch netflix, alongside lite gaming, I find linux to be more enjoyable. I don't have to do any command line oriented stuff at all for general use. The initial install is also very simple. On a desktop :)

We will have to agree to disagree. I think it is more an issue of framing perspective than anything.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#473

Post by ncmncm »

dralley wrote: post #5
ncmncm wrote: post #4

Embrace... Extend...

Overused meme is overused. Please explain to me how EEE can be applied to GPLv2 code.

It is, and was, not just a meme.

It was -- and may still be, where it can be made to work -- official corporate policy and strategy, at highest levels. Complaining about it didn't make it go away. Reduction of monopoly power limited opportunities to employ it. They have never renounced it, or admitted that it was wrong to have done it.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#474

Post by imetatroll »

goodcanadian wrote: post #264
gorio wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the wording I don't think that is the original definition? The idea is to make Linux viable as a desktop operating system, and whatever comes with that. Not running Linux as an application on another desktop. Which is almost the opposite as in leveraging capabilities outside of Linux. Maybe more importantly redefining the goal isn't helping Linux much. I remember everyone raving about Android, but now look at…

I keep seeing this angst over whether Linux will ever be ready on the desktop. Well, I've been using it exclusively for something like 15 years.

I too have been using it as my primary OS even when gaming for years now too. No issues.

In fact I would recommend it for anyone who only uses their computer for general, basic use.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#475

Post by crispinb »

nolok wrote: post #318
crispinb wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add the separate filesystems problem. I generally need to access files from both windows & linux. WSL 2 may have made file access faster within the vhd, but it seems to be slower to use those files from Windows, or impossible with tools that don't yet support the network file paths provided by the 9p server. VS Code's solution with the remote extension is really nice, but every Win tool would have to do somethin…

For the record I was used to SFTP NetDrive for my remote host (map a sftp target to a local drive on windows), and I just started using that to make sure all my windows tools can access it just fine. Doesn't solve the speed issue, but at least you're never blocked by a software that only work with a local/non-network path.

That's a pretty nice idea for the net paths issue. I'll borrow it, thanks.

I'd guess all significant Windows developer tools will add support for the wsl paths over time. VS Code obviously leads the pack with its remote extensions. I hope Jetbrains will do something similar with IntelliJ Idea - the piecemeal approach doesn't work as well IMO.

I'll be interested to see what Microsoft can do about the speed of access to the windows file system. It's painfully slow right now.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#476

Post by FrankHB »

acqq wrote: post #341
mtzet wrote: post #265

This is really Microsoft catching up to the Mac in terms of integration with the open-source ecosystem which importantly drives the web. In the mid 2000's the Mac really took off due to being a good-enough Linux replacement on the command line, while taking care of all the hardware integration and providing a sleek desktop experience. This really helped the Mac take off among hackers. This system wasn't as open-sourc…

> rather than trying to fit Linux applications in Windows, they're running in their own world and providing integrations into this world. It is effectively their way to have an "integrated Linux virtual machine" inside of Windows. The WSL1 on Windows was relatively similar (but not enough for me) to Wine on Linux. The WSL2 is in some ways "more integrated" than the typical VM would be, but otherwise still similar to…

MSYS2 can do something better than Cygwin.

I'm disappoint to "VM-like" behavior too, so I don't expect they would be totally replaced by WSL.

But this is similar in the other direction. Many applications just rely on such "VM-like" behavior, even though they can be (re)built for Win32 and/or they do not need a real VM for functionality. Note WSL1 can already do something more, e.g. hosting programs as X clients working with VcXsrv. I don't think WSL2 will be necessarily better than WSL1 in many of such cases. (In particular, when I have to reserve VT-x for some other hypervisors, I have no other choice.)

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#477

Post by robrtsql »

StudentStuff wrote: post #437
robrtsql wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people want to use the proprietary drivers, because nouveau's performance is prohibitively low for gaming. And that only supports switching GPUs with a reboot. It does work, but it's not very nice, which is what we are upset about.

Choose a vendor that isn't actively fighting the OS they sell and support if you want your hardware to work as expected: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/03/nvidia_server_gpus/ eGPUs in a laptop format is a bit silly, you sacrifice the mobility of the laptop to get a very cut down discrete mobile GPU. AMD has started to eat this market alive due to the performance per watt advantage: https://redd.it/bc5hkg Consu…

Your comment confuses me. Are you talking about external GPUs not making sense? Or dedicated GPUs in laptops?

Anyways, I'm pretty happy with the weight of my Dell XPS 15 which has an Nvidia card, but I regret buying it because of the lackluster Linux support.

I haven't seen any laptops with dedicated AMD cards at all lately, and until recently I had no idea that AMD's integrated cards were so competitive, so that's why I didn't. I plan to buy AMD next time I'm in the market.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#478

Post by jeremyjh »

StudentStuff wrote: post #433
ndarwincorn wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "solved problem" is using the kernel implementation of muxless hybrid graphics (PRIME), not Nvidia's proprietary one (Optimus).

Yeah, the "happy path" here is applicable if you don't attempt to install janky/poorly maintained proprietary out of tree drivers. The reason these drivers are out of tree is usually due to either serious hardware flaws, incompetent/inept vendors, or a combination of both. AMD has (in large part) fixed this by reusing the kernel shim from AMDGPU (open source & mainlined in kernel) for their proprietary driver (AMDGPU…

Yes, Nvidia provides terrible support for Linux, but it doesn't matter whose fault it is. That is the basis of many, many complaints about drivers for Linux. Nvidia ships in a great many laptops. If Nvidia sucks on linux, linux has a problem with drivers, full stop.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#479

Post by chrismorgan »

dblohm7 wrote: post #470
chrismorgan wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are Windows processes, just as the Win32 subsystem also spawns Windows processes.

Probably best to refer to them as NT processes for the sake of clarity.

True, I thought that a few hours after I wrote my last comment but couldn’t update it by that point and didn’t respond to it. Windows NT is the kernel, Win32 is the Windows subsystem that everyone’s used to (including kernel32.dll), WSL is a subsystem that runs ELF binaries and implements the Linux syscalls. It’s not yet obvious to me how much WSL2 is actually even a Windows subsystem, given that it’s running it as an actually separate OS.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#480

Post by VvR-Ox »

bonoboTP wrote: post #306
VvR-Ox wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to laugh when I read about this "Ubuntu install process" - Is there really still people on earth who can screw that up? :-D

Yes, many people I know would get stuck on the very first step: formatting and creating the bootable USB drive.

Aren't there apps to do that for you nowadays? :-D
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