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Microsoft's Linux Kernel

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Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#312
The only reason I'm sticking to my Macbook is the Linux based kernal, which makes it easier for me to use the command line, install NodeJS, build an application, install Redis Server on my local.

Though everything can be done in Windows, it's not easy to do so.

I specifically remember trying to install Redis on Windows and had to give up after the end of the day. Ended up creating a server and installing Redis on that on AWS.

Also, people are complaining that Microsoft once said "Linux is Cancer" at some point. A lot has changed since then. Ubuntu was released after that which IMO helped to adopt Linux by an end user.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#313

I wish Microsoft would release their own linux-based OS with a compatibility layer to let me run Windows apps. I'm not overly impressed with the direction Apple is going but I really enjoy a *nix-native environment too much to go back to vanilla Windows. It would change the math a lot for me if it was full-blown linux under the hood.

Why? This is a common ask, but what exactly makes a Linux kernel superior to Windows? There seems to be an assumption that Linux is the ultimate in OSes. But most of the value comes from the large ecosystem and momentum, rather than specific technical advantages.

In the post-SGI, pre-Second-Jobsian-Revolution world of the the mid-late 90s, there was a real malaise in workstation computing. The systems were dumbed down, the hardware was homogenized and commoditized into joyless beige, an ocean of "Try AOL Free for 100 days" CDs jostled and slushed amidst the flickering fluorescence of the cube farm, where CRTs and overhead lights would never quite hum along at the same frequency, zapping the air with an eerie, sanitized sick-static. This was the future of computing.

This gloomy world of palpable beige-yellow-purple is the world of Microsoft Windows. As a product, it caters exclusively to that clientele, in that environment. To be blunt, above all other design considerations, Windows was built to accommodate the lackluster office drone -- or, more precisely, their bean-counting overlords who wanted to save on user workstations.

Despite attempts to undo this, the design has proven impossible to build upon. How many legitimate improvements in the cutting edge of either academic or industrial compsci have been built on Windows technology, for any reason other than "MS signs my paycheck so I'm contriving this to appear like I'm happy to be using PowerShell"?

MS was able to paper over the deficiencies for a while through sheer force (pushing .NET as a semi-unified computing environment, Ballmer screaming "DEVELOPERS!", etc.), but Windows was in no way prepared for the revolution brought by virtualization in the mid-aughts, and any shred of a hope that MS would somehow recover was utterly and entirely obliterated by the widespread proliferation of containerization. Good luck getting a real version of that working on Windows.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: in about 5 years, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the new version of "Windows" plumbed end-to-end atop a nix-like kernel, and driven by a hybrid userland comprised of a spit-polished copy-paste from WINE + a grab bag of snippets from the proprietary MS-internal Win32.

The flexibility of the nix model is the indisputable, indomnitable winner here, and it stunned and killed the Goliath in its tracks. This is the ultimate surrender to the open-source model. Windows's top-down, "report to your cube by 8:26am sharp and don't question the men in the fancy suits" approach to computing resulted in a rigid operating system that was unable to keep pace with the technological demands of the many pantheons of loyal corporate drones that comprised their user base. Even strictly-Microsoft shops are forced to give developers MacBooks now, or they're unable to get anyone competent to sign on.

It really couldn't get more poetic than MS desperately integrating Linux into their OS so that people won't switch to the more flexible nix-like systems for their workstations, although I anxiously await MS accidentally linking in a GPL module and thus becoming required to disclose the Windows source code. :)

Meanwhile, per usual, nix-like OSes have been humming for 50-ish years now and show no signs of slowing down. IMO, that's all the objective, borne-out proof one needs to say that for all practical purposes, Windows couldn't stand the test of time.

Please note that this is not about Linux per se, but the overarching design theory and development processes in use in major operating systems, and the massive success it represents for open-source, research-driven systems.

The chapter on "The Windows Way" has been written, and whatever its benefits may be in theory, they don't bear out as sustainable in practice.

It'd be fun to do a macro-scale timeline comparison to Sun. These invincible tech behemoths that cater to their narrow niche become rotting, hollowed-out fossils as the free systems continue to develop and evolve the cutting edge. Microsoft is right on time here, and I fully expect to see them struggle through the next decade or so until Larry Ellison finally puts them out of their misery.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I have given major conference talks years back on my linux laptop with PowerPoint running via Crossover Office (wine), mostly due to my advisor's insistence on using PowerPoint. So that has already been a thing for a long while.

My issue is that with nvidia laptops the hdmi connection almost never works as expected, when I have cuda installed. I'll try proprietary or noveau drivers. I've driven my monitor with intel drivers. I've tried so many things, but it has been multiple laptops that I've just never gotten this to work. I just can't have cuda and use my laptop for presentations. So I just always keep a windows partition just for present…

I tried to do CUDA programming on a laptop with Ubunto but gave up. It worked fine on a stationary computer.

There has to be something with Cuda that messes everything up on laptops.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#315
post #312

The only reason I'm sticking to my Macbook is the Linux based kernal, which makes it easier for me to use the command line, install NodeJS, build an application, install Redis Server on my local. Though everything can be done in Windows, it's not easy to do so. I specifically remember trying to install Redis on Windows and had to give up after the end of the day. Ended up creating a server and installing Redis on tha…

What did I just read.

MacBook userspace is derived from NetBSD. The kernel is so far removed from BSD UNIX it's not worth even mentioning.

This link you commented on points to the kernel used in WSL2 which gives you a full Linux under Windows. Unlike Mac where you probably will use homebrew to install Unix packages, this is a full, unadultered Linux machine. Even WSL1 allowed you to install anything from Ubuntu although some (very, very few!) didn't run, most importantly (for us) some debuggers.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#316
post #312

The only reason I'm sticking to my Macbook is the Linux based kernal, which makes it easier for me to use the command line, install NodeJS, build an application, install Redis Server on my local. Though everything can be done in Windows, it's not easy to do so. I specifically remember trying to install Redis on Windows and had to give up after the end of the day. Ended up creating a server and installing Redis on tha…

LOL: MacOS is not Linux

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#317
post #312

The only reason I'm sticking to my Macbook is the Linux based kernal, which makes it easier for me to use the command line, install NodeJS, build an application, install Redis Server on my local. Though everything can be done in Windows, it's not easy to do so. I specifically remember trying to install Redis on Windows and had to give up after the end of the day. Ended up creating a server and installing Redis on tha…

MacOS don't have a Linux based Kernel. It's based on Darwin that comes from BSD.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few annoyances with WSL2. For me the most important are: 1. You can't connect to a port listening on WSL localhost like in WSL1, you have to figure out the WSL IP address and use that. 2. From WSL you can't connect to a Windows TCP port on localhost, you must figure out the Windows IP (cat /etc/resolv.conf) and use that. 3. The WSL remote interpreter on PyCharm is not working anymore. The suggested workar…

I'll add the separate filesystems problem. I generally need to access files from both windows & linux. WSL 2 may have made file access faster within the vhd, but it seems to be slower to use those files from Windows, or impossible with tools that don't yet support the network file paths provided by the 9p server. VS Code's solution with the remote extension is really nice, but every Win tool would have to do somethin…

For the record I was used to SFTP NetDrive for my remote host (map a sftp target to a local drive on windows), and I just started using that to make sure all my windows tools can access it just fine.

Doesn't solve the speed issue, but at least you're never blocked by a software that only work with a local/non-network path.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#319
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the wording I don't think that is the original definition? The idea is to make Linux viable as a desktop operating system, and whatever comes with that. Not running Linux as an application on another desktop. Which is almost the opposite as in leveraging capabilities outside of Linux. Maybe more importantly redefining the goal isn't helping Linux much. I remember everyone raving about Android, but now look at…

I keep seeing this angst over whether Linux will ever be ready on the desktop. Well, I've been using it exclusively for something like 15 years.

So your opinion is that it's ready?

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#320

I wish Microsoft would release their own linux-based OS with a compatibility layer to let me run Windows apps. I'm not overly impressed with the direction Apple is going but I really enjoy a *nix-native environment too much to go back to vanilla Windows. It would change the math a lot for me if it was full-blown linux under the hood.

Why? This is a common ask, but what exactly makes a Linux kernel superior to Windows? There seems to be an assumption that Linux is the ultimate in OSes. But most of the value comes from the large ecosystem and momentum, rather than specific technical advantages.

I don't think this is about technical superiority of one kernel vs. the other. It is about the software environment. Linux is the most actively used Unix-derivate at this time. So by running Linux you get a whole software stack. Parts of this stack has been ported to Windows too (e.g. via Cygwin) but you get the most coherent user experience by just installing a Linux distribution, as WSL allows you.
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