Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#221

Post by largehotcoffee » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:12 PM UTC

riq_ wrote: post #150

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

Yes, China is bad.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#222

Post by koonsolo » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

wuliwong wrote: post #206

koonsolo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level, where China is. Seriously? You are kidding right? You must be kidding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial... The most poplular examples are probably German Enercon and Dutch Airbus, but our own Belgian Lernout & Hauspie was also targeted by something you are in compl…

I have no clue what level of industrial espionage takes place in the US or China but the fact that it _has_ occurred in both places does not speak to the frequency and severity that these types of actions are taken. All your examples could be true and still the Chinese govt. could be orders of magnitude worse. To me all of this is nearly irrelevant to OP's original point which was taking an American company's manufac…

I was reacting to this statement: "The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level", which is obviously false. I wanted to rectify that.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#223

Post by evv » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

hugi wrote: post #167

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

I'm constantly amazed by how Americans think they're so awesome that they think they can criticize China politically.

Don't be amazed. It is part of American culture to criticize international and domestic policies that we disagree with.

The Trump administration may be an embarrassment to the American people, but we are still free to call out injustices that we see.

Anyone with a bit of bravery can be awesome enough to criticize China's authoritarian regime. Just don't do it while you're there.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#224

Post by lenkite » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

riq_ wrote: post #150

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

China is carrying out forced organ donation at the moment on their prisoners. At what point will China become "bad" for you ? At the point, they start mass-murdering their 'un-desirables' in gas camps and harvesting their bodies ?

There is utterly no equivalence in comparing the USA and China wrt human rights. Any single, incident in the USA gets extra-ordinary media attention. A million incidents in China are buried under the carpet.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nightmare-of-human-organ-ha...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/18/china-kil...

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#225

Post by tomp » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

carapace wrote: post #201

pwinnski wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are over-simplifying a very complicated argument, although perhaps HN is not the place for the full argument. When I was young, I lived in nightly fear of China. I lived on a military base in the 1980s, and read conspiratorialist material my parents had in the house. One of my greatest fears was China's army of hundreds of millions of men. Today I don't fear China. I have a ten-year tourist visa for Chi…

> Today I don't fear China. I have a ten-year tourist visa for China and will be heading to Hong Kong next week. Hong Kong was just the site of a million people protesting because they were afraid of China. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/11/why-are-t...

and winning

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#226

Post by tomp » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

jhasse wrote: post #105

codedokode wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How keeping production away from China will help the oppressed?

By not helping the Chinese government.

How has that helped in the case of Cuba, Iran and North Korea?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#227

Post by lenkite » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

deehouie wrote: post #190

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

If you believe USA has better human rights record, think again. Just read about how this country treats its black citizens. Let me mention the Vietnam war, for which most HN readers are probably familiar with. I was in the War Remnants Museum in Saigon and here is what I saw. In one photo, taken by US journalist, a Viet Cong was being held on the ground by American GIs, a rag is placed over the man's face and water i…

So because a few individuals did something against the code of fighting conduct in 1968, a nation can run mass-incarceration camps and carry out forced organ harvesting for millions in 2019 ?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#228

Post by bsder » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

mAEStro-paNDa wrote: post #220

sonnyblarney wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're comparing Xianjiang and what's happening at the border then this is not eve remotely 'equal opportunity' criticism - it's classical Chinese moral relativism. In Xianjiang people are being rounded up for their religion or ethnicity, thrown into concentration camps, made 'non-persons', tortured, killed, if they die on trumped up charges their organs are harvested. It's Nazi-Germany level stuff. The US is not…

The China stuff aside, I wish I had time to address all of the points made in this comment in full. Frankly it's a severely misleading explanation that edges very close to misinformation. Quoting the grandparent comment exactly, the US is in fact "locking up children". They are also not "free to leave". Most detainees are required to wait for their hearing. In addition, no rule has been discarded. The push for zero-t…

> This is not even taking into account the issue with illegal immigration and seeking asylum being a criminal issue, the fact that people within the US are being deported, not just those attempting to come in the southern border, and lastly, the reasons why people are fleeing these countries as well as the historical context and the US's role in that.

The difference is that the are people in the US calling out and protesting the horrors occurring and those protesters do not wind up with their organs harvested.

This is kind of a big deal and highlights the differences between the US and China.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#229

Post by hawaiian » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:48 PM UTC

povertyworld wrote: post #102

departure wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Austin is so expensive even fast food places advertise $14 an hr.

Yeah, I was going to say, they should go to where ever the local Amazon fulfillment center is. Those places are always hiring and start at $15 an hour.

Working at an Amazon fulfillment center is not for the faint of heart. There's a reason they're always hiring. The physical requirements of the job are easy to overlook.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#230

Post by __m » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #224

riq_ wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

China is carrying out forced organ donation at the moment on their prisoners. At what point will China become " bad " for you ? At the point, they start mass-murdering their 'un-desirables' in gas camps and harvesting their bodies ? There is utterly no equivalence in comparing the USA and China wrt human rights. Any single, incident in the USA gets extra-ordinary media attention. A million incidents in China are buri…

china would need to step up their game if they want to reach US numbers. Killing millions by invading or instigating overthrows and torturing people to death (either directly or indirectly) isn’t exactly „good“ in my book.