Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#171

Post by bassman9000 » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

riq_ wrote: post #150

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

That was a really long way of not explaining what the US steals, in terms of IP, from other countries.

It was also a pretty lengthy way to mascarade the damning false equivalence. China is, undoubtely, worse, in terms of human rights and development. No, the US is not the best. China is far worse.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#172

Post by save_ferris » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

reymus wrote: post #121

save_ferris wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO The current MacBook design iteration has mostly been a disappointment. The hardware quality has materially worsened over the previous generation, with numerous reports of keyboard, screen, and speaker issues. They sacrificed far too much in order to achieve the thin form factor. The touchbar is also a terrible joke. I’ve had two current-gen MBPs through work and both of them have completely convinced me against b…

Your points are completely valid, I get your frustration. But you are comparing against previous generations of MacBooks. I would like to know your thoughts when comparing against e.g. a top tier ThinkPad running Windows or Linux.

I can’t honestly give you that comparison because I’ve never used a thinkpad long enough to get to know it. I’ve been Mac-only for 8 years now, but I’m looking around to see if the community decides on a solid MBP replacement of my old MBP dies.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#173

Post by homonculus1 » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

Fezzik wrote: post #141

chrisjc wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to dilute the conversation and the point you're trying to make, but I've had absolutely no luck grasping what this 'woke' meme is. Something about liberals finally understanding what conservatives have been saying all along?

I would define it simply as a buzz word that silly people use to try to express a unique awareness and deeper understanding that no-one else can have of more liberal issues (racial, LBGTQ, social condition, etc...)

It should be noted that it seems to have had a remarkably short lifespan between hitting the mainstream and being widely used to mock the people who use it unironically. For context to this observation, my bias is that I think its straightforward meaning is mainly for confrontational moral grandstanders to signal their blue-tribe affiliation.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#174

Post by tchaffee » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

> I believe we are mortgaging our future.

Who is "we"? I thought the Hacker News community was international?

> with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps

Right now the US has children, separated from their parents at the border, caged up in chain link fences like animals. I agree the US does win over China when it comes to human rights overall, but I don't think Americans are in a good position to be talking about human rights abuses at this exact point in history.

I am not personally attacking you. You made some reasonable points. I am suggesting that if you view the US from afar, like you are viewing China from afar, there might be some useful information there.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#175

Post by bassman9000 » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

jshowa3 wrote: post #134

I honestly think the China IP rip off is overblown, and this is coming from someone who works there often. Also, if open source software has demonstrated, sequestering IP behind patents is a hindrance to society. And your critique about civil rights abuses could equally be leveled against the US itself. After all, we put several immigrant children in concentration camps on the daily because they just want to move to…

[flagged]

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#176

Post by Chris_Chambers » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

Nokinside wrote: post #153

scohesc wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not related to OP, but I think every country has the right to stop illegal immigration into their country - the US has been warning everyone numerous times and have said illegal migrants will be put into these places while they get processed and/or deported. These people made a choice to try and take the easy path for a better life, through methods that are less-than-ideal for the host country. Just because someone w…

You are confusing concentration camps and extermination camps. In Nazi Germany many but not all concentration camps were also extermination camps. Historians generally agree that US has now concentration camps in their original meaning. Separating children from their parents into inhuman concentration camp is a crime against humanity.

We get it, you hate Blonald Blumpf. You can go back to reddit now.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#177

Post by sonnyblarney » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

riq_ wrote: post #150

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

"USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they mention it, they will put phrase it like "America liberated the population of Irak "

This is complete rubbish.

The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level, where China is.

Second - geopolitical issues have nothing to do with theft of IP, and usually not even resources (at least not in Central America).

'Central American countries' or 'Iraq' definitely have nothing to offer the US or anyone else in terms of the kind of IP theft one might be concerned about in China.

America did not 'steal' anything from Iraq - their Oil is their own, they receive 100% of the revenue, not only that, they are free to partner with any company they use, in fact, they ended up going with entities like Total (France), Statoil (Russia) etc. instead of US companies. (I guess as a 'thanks' for the fact they are now free to do as they please, and the Oil belongs to the people of Iraq instead of Saddam Co.)

"China is bad" because they steal IP, there is no rule of law, there is widespread corruption, pollution, there is total control of the people by the state and people dissapear of the street for no reason.

Literally, as we speak, China is incarcerating 100's of thousands, possibly millions of people due to their ethnicity or religion, and harvesting their organs as they are killed on trumped up charges. [1]

When we use the term 'Nazi' or 'concentration camps', usually it's hyperbole - but it's not: we now have a major power rounding up people by the millions due to ethnicity and culling their organs. This is actualy Nazi level stuff.

The level of moral relativism implied here is repulsive.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/23/asia/china-organ-harvesting/i...

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#178

Post by jwong_ » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #168

drivingmenuts wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can call out their malfeasance, treachery, outright shenanigans, whatever, but is it appropriate to get upset about it when your own side is just as treacherous? I’m starting to reach the point where, short of outright killing people, I just don’t care because my country of residence is just as bad as the “bad” guys. Worse, nothing will really ever change that.

Trust me, I'm an equal opportunity critic when it comes to human rights. In the same breath that I condemn the Chinese government for it's actions in Xianjiang I condemn the current administration for locking up children at our border. Life is too grey to silence yourself on issues you care strongly about.

Just an FYI I think you mean Xinjiang, and not Xianjiang. I only mention it since you typed it the same in two different comments.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#179

Post by mrguyorama » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

scohesc wrote: post #148

jshowa3 wrote: post #134

I honestly think the China IP rip off is overblown, and this is coming from someone who works there often. Also, if open source software has demonstrated, sequestering IP behind patents is a hindrance to society. And your critique about civil rights abuses could equally be leveled against the US itself. After all, we put several immigrant children in concentration camps on the daily because they just want to move to…

Not related to OP, but I think every country has the right to stop illegal immigration into their country - the US has been warning everyone numerous times and have said illegal migrants will be put into these places while they get processed and/or deported. These people made a choice to try and take the easy path for a better life, through methods that are less-than-ideal for the host country. Just because someone w…

>Also, your definition is quite different from the original definition of concentration camps,

You mean the ones the British used in the Boer wars? And that's just the earliest ones I know of, I'm sure sequestering your enemies into tiny areas with inadequate resources is as old as society itself

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#180

Post by sonnyblarney » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #168

drivingmenuts wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can call out their malfeasance, treachery, outright shenanigans, whatever, but is it appropriate to get upset about it when your own side is just as treacherous? I’m starting to reach the point where, short of outright killing people, I just don’t care because my country of residence is just as bad as the “bad” guys. Worse, nothing will really ever change that.

Trust me, I'm an equal opportunity critic when it comes to human rights. In the same breath that I condemn the Chinese government for it's actions in Xianjiang I condemn the current administration for locking up children at our border. Life is too grey to silence yourself on issues you care strongly about.

If you're comparing Xianjiang and what's happening at the border then this is not eve remotely 'equal opportunity' criticism - it's classical Chinese moral relativism.

In Xianjiang people are being rounded up for their religion or ethnicity, thrown into concentration camps, made 'non-persons', tortured, killed, if they die on trumped up charges their organs are harvested. It's Nazi-Germany level stuff.

The US is not 'putting children in prison' - the US (was previously) holding people who are trying to enter the country due literally to the prosperity of the nation. They are well treated and are free to leave any time.

Now that the rule has been discarded, migrants bring their children specifically on the dangerous journey because they know if they bring their kids, they don't have to go into detention.

This year there there has been a massive upswing in illegal migration precisely because migrants now know the golden legal loophole: bring a child - and they won't have to be held, they can immediately enter the country. And of course, the irony of the fact these people are desperately trying to get in to the country should not be lost on anyone making morally relative claims comparing that situation to Xianjiang.