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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

wsj.com

61–70 of 336 posts

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#61
post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

Have you been following what China does to entire population groups that threaten their stability? Name one country that is more stable for mass production than China? Its just not the leafy vision of stability you had in mind.

The problem is that these types of regimes tend to preside over a system that's extremely stable, right up to the moment when it really really is not.

Batista's Cuba was very stable and friendly to foreign investment too, for instance. Then along came Castro, and suddenly not only was it not particularly stable, but lots of those foreign companies had all their holdings expropriated by the new government for having collaborated with their oppressor. Oops!

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#62
post #53
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple previously (years ago) spoke about the importance of the supply chain, not price as the reason to mfg in China. Steve Jobs gave an example that if you needed to change the design to use a different type of screw then you'd have several manufacturers nearby that you could source from. That's just not possible in the US.

> That's just not possible in the US. This is a chicken and egg argument. Supply and demand fixes these things.

> Supply and demand fixes these things.

Not necessarily. A lot of know-how in many Western nations has died out over the last decades of off-shoring, and factories have long ago closed shop. You'd have to do a start from absolute zero and that needs more money, way way more money, than the US can afford.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#63
post #38
post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

Apple has enough money in the bank at this point to not really care about what is or what isn't the most stable. They could make the worst decisions possible and it would take years before the consequences of their actions come back to bite them. While I'm sure they had genius analysts crunch and ultimately approve this move, the rules are different for them.

Did they get to that enviable position by making a long series of good or bad decisions on balance?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#64
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'll avoid any Apple products just because of the not uncommon horror stories I hear from customer service.

To be fair what PC company does not have horror stories when it comes to customer service? The only exception I've personally experienced is Dell enterprise support, but that's a far reach from what any consumer will have.

Strictly when it comes to customer service? Maybe Razer?

Their prices are definitely horror inducing for some of their peripherals, otoh...but that’s probably applicable to a large part of the “gaming peripherals” market.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#65

This is not good.

The article reveals that the people working the Mac Pro assembly line in Texas where paid the minimum wage which in Texas is currently $7.25 an hour. When the plant closes, those guys can apply to any fast food place in Austin, and make the same money.

The lost Apple jobs shrink the Austin market for labor.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#66
post #60

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

Honestly this is a very one-sided view of the issue. The life of Chinese people definitely improved with economic improvements.

In spite of the Chinese party...

The Chinese gov may be massive and seem all encompassing but they don’t have an economic and financial administrative system yet comparable to the US (or Europe) which is involved in licensing and oversight of everything at multiple tiers of gov in the west, from who can be an interior designer (4yrs! of education is mandatory in some states) to who can cut hair. When China does have a system in place it can usually be bypassed by “financially partnering” with the local party officials. Which has allowed industry to flourish there, in spite of the sweeping sociopolitical controls and strong security posturing, which of course includes some of the downsides of lacking forward thinking administration with a strong industrial sector (environmental, long working hours, etc).

Just take the example of the whole process of opening a factory in the US, despite having the full support of the executive branch and some local governments, it has been an eye opening disaster for Foxconn. Any large factory opening in the US is a big deal and a laborious process that has to be greased by extensive tax breaks (to already wealthy companies) and other such nonsense (see Amazons whole HQ charade) to even happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn's_Wisconsin_plant

So the improvements to the economic lives of the Chinese may have improved massively there are still lots of other areas it's straight-up authoritarian, or worse, its opaque what level of government is involved.Which in business is usually none until you’re making a lot of money, which can be skimmed. The good thing is with economic success comes improvements to education, healthcare quality, foreign travel, etc which improves the individual Chinese position in the world and hopefully can empower their home country to some brighter future.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#67

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

It probably explains the at least $4,000 markup between the cost of the hardware and the final price. They've gotta pay those tariffs and pass the losses onto consumers who don't care about spending $6,000 for an 8-core CPU, 32gb of ECC ram, an R580X and 256 SSD. You'd have to be drinking a lot of fucking Kool Aid as any sort of creative professional to think MacOS is worth that premium above alternative tools in eit…

In professional environments the price of a computer is so minimal it doesn’t really matter. If someone is being paid even $100K a year then the extra $4,000 for a computer they’ll have for probably 4 years is a rounding error.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#68

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

I'm not really sure it's Apples job to advocate for policies in a foreign country. They're a business, not a nation state. I think the extent to which privacy is valued is up for the Chinese to decide. Not really a fan of American companies engaging in corporate activism abroad.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#69

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

IMO The current MacBook design iteration has mostly been a disappointment. The hardware quality has materially worsened over the previous generation, with numerous reports of keyboard, screen, and speaker issues. They sacrificed far too much in order to achieve the thin form factor. The touchbar is also a terrible joke.

I’ve had two current-gen MBPs through work and both of them have completely convinced me against buying my own. They’re both so inferior to the design of the previous generation.

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