Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#71

Post by a-afterglow » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

mfatica wrote: post #55

a-afterglow wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'll avoid any Apple products just because of the not uncommon horror stories I hear from customer service.

To be fair what PC company does not have horror stories when it comes to customer service? The only exception I've personally experienced is Dell enterprise support, but that's a far reach from what any consumer will have.

That's true. If I had an SV engineer salary I probably wouldn't think it too much. But the cheapest MacBook Pro is a quarter of my yearly earnings, so right now I will choose what is cheaper to maintain.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#72

Post by zelos » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

"More than 80% of the workers working across three assembly lines were contract employees paid minimum wage for eight-hour workday...when their shift ended, many walked off the job, he said—even if the lines were still running."

Of course they did, that's what anyone in that situation would do surely? Are they supposed to work for below minimum wage because the company can't organise shift changeover properly?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#73

Post by namirez » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #20

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

> They stand for rights and privacy only when it does not interfere with their revenue stream.

I understand the sentiment, but it's a nonstarter. A company that prioritizes human rights at the expense of profit, is a company that has no chance of survival in our political or economic environment, regardless of whether it's in China or the US. The corporate incentives are not fully aligned with the long term interests of humanity. That's why we see companies supporting LGBTQ rights and immigration, but fight to their teeth to prevent labor laws and unions.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#74

Post by jimmaswell » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

rubbingalcohol wrote: post #43

Shivetya wrote: post #20

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

It probably explains the at least $4,000 markup between the cost of the hardware and the final price. They've gotta pay those tariffs and pass the losses onto consumers who don't care about spending $6,000 for an 8-core CPU, 32gb of ECC ram, an R580X and 256 SSD. You'd have to be drinking a lot of fucking Kool Aid as any sort of creative professional to think MacOS is worth that premium above alternative tools in eit…

To put the markup into more concrete terms, here's a sample Windows laptop I quickly found around $1000 (the Prime price, normal price is apparently $1400). [0] I'll compare it to the cheapest MBP at $1300. [1]

I wish HN markdown had tables.

15.6" 3840 x 2160 vs 13.3" 2560x1600

i7-7700 vs unspecified i5

16GB RAM vs 8GB RAM

GTX 1050 vs Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640

256GB SSD+1TB HDD vs 256GB SSD ($800 upcharge for a 1TB SSD on the MBP when in reality a 1TB SSD costs $100)

Numpad and usb-A ports, HDMI vs no numpad and usb-c only (no ethernet on either but I didn't look very hard to find this listing)

And some have an affinity for Mac OS (I don't understand it at all) but on the Windows one you'll be able to easily run any game you want and have a much broader software catalog to choose from in general.

0: https://www.amazon.com/VivoBook-Touchscreen-i7-7700HQ-GeForc...

1: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch-space...

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#75

Post by jmull » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #20

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

I think, in the long run, deep economic engagement with China will change it for the better, not economic withdrawal. If you care about the people of China I think this is a positive (albeit, a drop in the bucket).

Not that they should just embrace or accept the worst trends of China -- that wouldn't help. But engage and apply pressure with the resulting leverage. Here's a link to Apple's self-reported efforts in this area (it seems sincere to me, though I don't have any special insight into this): https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple_SR_2...

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#76

Post by api » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #20

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

They're a public company owned by their shareholders. This isn't their job.

What it will take is for the US and other countries to start prioritizing human rights in trade negotiations.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#77

Post by codedokode » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #20

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

How keeping production away from China will help the oppressed?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#78

Post by LIV2 » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

povertyworld wrote: post #35

a_lifters_life wrote: post #2

This is not good.

The article reveals that the people working the Mac Pro assembly line in Texas where paid the minimum wage which in Texas is currently $7.25 an hour. When the plant closes, those guys can apply to any fast food place in Austin, and make the same money.

Apple paying their workers the absolute minimum required by law is also not good, they have almost 1 trillion dollars ffs

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#79

Post by jimmaswell » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

stanmancan wrote: post #67

rubbingalcohol wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably explains the at least $4,000 markup between the cost of the hardware and the final price. They've gotta pay those tariffs and pass the losses onto consumers who don't care about spending $6,000 for an 8-core CPU, 32gb of ECC ram, an R580X and 256 SSD. You'd have to be drinking a lot of fucking Kool Aid as any sort of creative professional to think MacOS is worth that premium above alternative tools in eit…

In professional environments the price of a computer is so minimal it doesn’t really matter. If someone is being paid even $100K a year then the extra $4,000 for a computer they’ll have for probably 4 years is a rounding error.

Have that attitude about your purchases for 10 years, wasting at least $4000 a year, and you've wasted $40000. That's significant even if you do make $100k.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#80

Post by gentran » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

muzani wrote: post #32

gentran wrote: post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

Why do you say China is unstable? The US is talking about starting a war, had government shutdown issues recently, and has a president that is abrasive on foreign affairs. UK is dealing with brexit. China may have the issue with HK recently, but to an outsider, they look more stable. Of course, something like Japan or Australia seems better, but China isn't a terrible choice.

I'm not saying China is unstable. My implication was that maybe these massive USA based corporations might see China as more stable for business continuity. I know production is totally different, and understand some of the reasons for moving it to China. While I do not imagine them leaving, what do you think would happen if America lost these massive, global corporations to their biggest rival?