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Unbelievable how Americans can be so brainwashed about their country's status in the world yet believe that they're completely "free"
Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
51–60 of 223 posts
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was not free trade before though. We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture. So econmists are wrong. You can have a perfectly unfree market and still posper, all you have to do is to convince other other nations to ignore the obvious mafia like behavior. This is both a democrats and republican making. Trump is right about this war even if it will cost some, in the long run we are bet…
"We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture." I would argue that China opened access more than the US did. During the Mao era, it was basically impossible for US goods to enter the Chinese market. The converse was not true: Chinese goods could enter the US market. So during liberalization the Chinese opened up more than the US did simply because they had so much further to go.
Not sure what you mean.
The situation defacto is that china and the chinese has free access to our markets while we don't have free access to theirs.
The situation is that defacto china is benefitting from their developing nation status outcompeting western companies just on shipping prices.
Very few US products enter the chinese market plus those who do are forced to give over their IP.
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#53This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…
There was not free trade before though. We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture. So econmists are wrong. You can have a perfectly unfree market and still posper, all you have to do is to convince other other nations to ignore the obvious mafia like behavior. This is both a democrats and republican making. Trump is right about this war even if it will cost some, in the long run we are bet…
> We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture.
How is that so? The US people brought all those products in exchange of what exactly?
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
20 years ago that would have been absolutely 100% true. The damage may already have been done, however. The IP has already been given away, so China doesn't much need us, but so has the manufacturing, so we need them. I hope that's not the case, but... we'll see. I do remember how economists were lining up to shout their party line, that protectionism doesn't work and China was only hurting themselves. For some reaso…
But new IP is being created. Just because the other presidents didn't act in time, doesn't mean we should continue letting China dominate by basically operating as a mafia organization while still being defined as a developing nation. That's absolutely absurd.
China can make new IP too. Our big advantage was our head start and we blew it. I'd love to be wrong.
As for letting China continue to reap the benefits of being defined as a developing nation, yes, that's absurd, and also needed to stop 10-20 years ago.
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#55This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…
Don’t forget the Republican and Democratic parties kinda did a flip. I’m not sure if Nixon’s 1960s Republican party was the same as it is today. It was certainly starting to head the way it is today in the 1960s.
The Republican and Democratic parties did a flip around the turn of the 20th century.
What's happened since the 1960s is more that the Republican party has been charging madly off into the far right (and, in some cases, simply into looney-land), while the Democratic party has shuffled nervously rightward after them.
You'll note that it's far from true now to say that the Republicans are doing much of anything that the Democrats would have done in the 1960s (aside from things that were prevalent across the board at that time, like racism and sexism).
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#56>To ease the blow, Micron appears to have found a workaround. It said it had recently resumed some shipments to Huawei based on its interpretation of the Trump administration’s restrictions, noting that some goods produced by American companies overseas are not always considered American-made.
This sounds like the trade war is discouraging US-based manufacturing
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#57[flagged]
The Blonde's administration and open support for barbaric regimes and murderers like Saudi prince, Erdogan etc. does much more evil in this world than what China did in last 10 years. Even if it would be equal, US can't have any moral high ground in today's world. They could fix tons of problems if they really wanted. But in reality Russians had to enter fight with ISIS to actually make a change. Makes you wonder if…
China has over a million people in concentration camps right now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well sure American and other companies have tried to gain market share in China, but China has effectively stifled a lot of foreign competitors from entering. So it's not very symmetric free trade with China, therefore giving some justification for this silly trade war. It's understandable though from China's perspective, that they aren't willing to give up important strategic sectors like social media or internet se…
> To me it speaks volumes how restrictive and hostile the Chinese market is to foreign companies, can you imagine having to do the same for each country? China is the most populated country on earth and an emerging superpower. They have every right to consider themselves exceptional, just the way the US considers itself exceptional. To posit another angle: most international nations are smaller markets than the US (i…
> international nations
What's an international nation?
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was not free trade before though. We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture. So econmists are wrong. You can have a perfectly unfree market and still posper, all you have to do is to convince other other nations to ignore the obvious mafia like behavior. This is both a democrats and republican making. Trump is right about this war even if it will cost some, in the long run we are bet…
> We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture. How is that so? The US people brought all those products in exchange of what exactly?
Paying Oracle to use their database software makes Oracle stronger. Paying China to use their manufacturing makes China stronger. That's the meta-game.
China strongly discouraged their citizens and companies from buying US products and making the US stronger, but the US encouraged their citizens to buy from China, making China stronger.
This worked out well for China.
Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think OP meant, that it's ironic.
Yeah, but it's not ironic. Parties are fluid organizations, not internally coherent philosophies. And even if they were, people are allowed to rethink their ideas.
I know what you are trying to say, but IMO that's practically the definition of irony.
> Economic-liberals in the US have mostly been Republicans historically.
> people are allowed to rethink their ideas.
Of course people can change their minds and opinions. But that's what is ironic and funny - to completely change your long time historical behaviour.