Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 223 posts

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#11

Post by ptah »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

i think from china's perspective "providing markets for American companies" is a form of colonialism which they try to mitigate by forcing IP transfer

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#12

Post by olalonde »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

> What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with.

Why is that crazy? Economic-liberals in the US have mostly been Republicans historically.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#13

Post by simonh »

pjc50 wrote: post #8
scarejunba wrote: post #3

The semiconductor is game-changing tech. When America allowed the Hygon Dhyana to be made, America fucked up. Hold it back. This is real tech. You can't let it go. I'm for free societies, but free societies must defend themselves from societies organized to kill free societies. The semiconductor is real. Giving away this will pay poor dividends.

This is ridiculous. Semiconductor manufacturing has been globalised for decades . The "other China" has had TSMC since 1987, and they are world leaders. > Hold it back It's technology. Talking about technology is speech. You can have free speech or technology export restrictions but not both. Why do people keep suggesting ways to keep America ""free"" that make it substantially less free? Especially since 9/11.

To your last point, because they value their freedom to do things they want, more than they value your freedom to do things you want, and will throw you under a bus to get their way.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#14

Post by cinquemb »

What has damaged the US chip industry is the overeliance upon old IP for "new" products, combined with lack of investment in industries that would benefit from more cutting edge tech, thus enabling state owned manufactures in china to eat their lunch in asia in this upcoming decade.

You'd have to be really on the pipe to ignore the declining sales volume of derivative products the past couple of years (masked quite nicely by corporates willing to buy back shares and employ a host of reporting tricks) before this trade war™ nonsense.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#15

Post by trymas »

olalonde wrote: post #12
pjc50 wrote: post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

> What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. Why is that crazy? Economic-liberals in the US have mostly been Republicans historically.

I think OP meant, that it's ironic.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#16

Post by bhouston »

I am pretty sure that China is going to take a temporary hit but in the end they will emerge stronger than ever. I think China will also redouble on their efforts to be full self-sufficient in all high tech areas, even if they have to open up for a sanction relief deal, their population will so favor local competitors, that it won't matter.

China's rise will continue and dominant until their demographic bubble bursts and they turn into Japan when a falling population. I am curious if China can change course on its demographics in a way that Japan couldn't? Tech dominance is all but assured but if the demographics issue isn't resolved, they will clearly stagnant.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#17

Post by PedroBatista »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

American companies have done REALLY well for themselves both post-war and in the globalization age. The cheer amount of capital and military elbow grease assured their dominance no matter what.

Perhaps most America's problems are more internal than external and when the game is rigged in favor of one country we don't see them complaining. Maybe everyone is the same.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#18

Post by ThomPete »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

There was not free trade before though. We allowed China access to our markets, they didnt return the gesture. So econmists are wrong. You can have a perfectly unfree market and still posper, all you have to do is to convince other other nations to ignore the obvious mafia like behavior.

This is both a democrats and republican making. Trump is right about this war even if it will cost some, in the long run we are better of.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#19

Post by seren »

I believe this not only affecting the US.

I still have not quite understood the deal around ARM, that will stop cooperating with Huawei. This is a UK based company, owned by a Japanese conglomerate, Softbank, but they were still affected because they have a development center in Texas.

The logical conclusion would be that if you are a global company and want to keep selling to China (or to whoever will get a trade ban or sanction), you should not incorporate any US tech, or have US development teams. This seems to be quite counterproductive from the US point of view, it means that investing in the US expose you to additional risks.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#20

Post by wil421 »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

This is the thing that economists have been pointing out for decades: at the country scale, allowing free trade provides productivity benefits to both sides, and restricting it affects both sides. You can't have a trade war without domestic casualties. What's crazier is that the strategy of economically integrating China with the world was a Rebublican economic-liberal one to start with. The plan was to make the rest…

Don’t forget the Republican and Democratic parties kinda did a flip. I’m not sure if Nixon’s 1960s Republican party was the same as it is today. It was certainly starting to head the way it is today in the 1960s.
Post reply on HN