Earlier quoted context omitted.
I call this class of comment the "linkless martyr". People make grand, self-flattering claims about why they were supposedly banned. Strangely, what they never do is supply links so readers can make up their own minds. Why do you suppose that is? Could it be that we don't ban accounts for "posting ethical objections"?
That’s a rather passive aggressive way to ask for a link, isn’t it? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19507288 Oh and what do you know, now that comment appears to have been flagged, too! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20249650
Report on forced organ harvesting in China
191–199 of 199 posts
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think most countries criticizing this don’t have an active organ harvesting and internment camp operation against ethnic and religious groups, though. That's true, though I have a feeling the "guests" at the US black sites would've preferred to be transferred to Chinese Gulags. Were Libya, Iraq or Syria drunk driving accidents? I suppose we might disagree here. Everybody always claims they do the terrible things…
I'm not arguing that the black sites weren't horrible, however thousands of people being kidnapped by the CIA is less than almost a million people kidnapped by China in Xinjiang. And this is only talking about what China has knowingly done indiscriminantly towards innocent civilians, the torture and disapperances of people who have been charged or investigated for crimes against the Chinese state (which is more compa…
My problem with the way you paint Libya, Syria and Iraq (there was some overreach, but by and large, they were working with the locals) is that this shifts responsibility away from those that attacked. They removed the state and the stable equilibrium of powers and installed ... nothing. As expected, the territories degenerated into a tribalistic civil war with all kinds of horrible things (which, and how many, of these groups were created/led/funded by the CIA, we'll likely know at some point in the future). ISIS/ISIL are a direct consequence of this policy, and so are slave markets in Libya. Certainly these weren't declared goals, but I don't believe the top officials to be stupid, they were well aware of what happens when you remove the dictator of a country that is only held together by his iron first - especially when they did it over and over, allegedly expecting different results.
> Not saying the US shouldn't address and improve their own record of human rights abuses, and indeed address those that are currently ongoing (such as the detention of immigrants without a trial), but claiming that they have no business criticizing the ongoing, orders of magnitude larger Chinese human rights abuses is going to make the world a worse place.
But this wasn't stated anywhere, was it? The OP said that focusing on China would be a major factor in his voting decision. He was asked whether he'd ignore US abuses. As I tried to clumsily state elsewhere: it's much easier to change your own behavior than that of others, so if it's "I want less abuse in the world" that you want, start with your own and make "end the abuse" the top priority in your decision who to elect into the office of the president and commander in chief of the most powerful offensive military in the world. No Iraq, Libya, Syria and a million or two wouldn't be dead, with many millions more displaced and on the run. My feeling is that China, with all the terrible things they do, still has to stretch a lot to come close to that.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should go find a Holocaust survivor and check. I'm sure many of them take comfort in the fact that destruction of their lives contributed to the progress of science.
What can a Holocaust survivor tell us about the horrors of Nazism in 2019? They were likely toddlers at the time of Holocaust.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
We changed the URL to that from https://www.sciencealert.com/our-worst-fears-about-where-chi... .
Could you please answer the question in this comment? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20250367 Thanks!
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's incredible the mysticism that outsiders assign to Falun Gong. If Falun Gong were in the West, you'd look at them the same way you look at Scientologists and anti-vaxxers. The entire premise behind Falun Gong is that it cleanses your body of diseases such that you won't need medication. So you had people literally dying from abandoning their medication in favor of Falun Gong exercises while the leader collected f…
There is a fundamental difference between anti-vaxxers and the Falun Dafa (Falun Gong is the same thing , I'm referring to it as Falun Dafa because that't their preferred name). The Falun Dafa take active steps to avoid needing Western medicine (you aren't as likely to go into depression if you exercise and do stuff every day, and thus not need anti-depressants) whilst most anti-vaxxers are only united in not giving…
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a fundamental difference between anti-vaxxers and the Falun Dafa (Falun Gong is the same thing , I'm referring to it as Falun Dafa because that't their preferred name). The Falun Dafa take active steps to avoid needing Western medicine (you aren't as likely to go into depression if you exercise and do stuff every day, and thus not need anti-depressants) whilst most anti-vaxxers are only united in not giving…
above your comment is an attempt to assign cult status to Falun Dafa. Classic smear, and has been China's go-to for years.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not necessarily. For one thing it depends on consent. There is nothing wrong with a condemned person to consent to organ donation, if there is meaningful consent to be had. One would think that even China has some compunctions about "creating" capital crimes in order to have enough organ donors. One of the problems with the underlying story is that the non-consenting donors must have been killed somewhat "extrajudici…
It is generally thought that an incarcerated condemned prisoner cannot consent to anything without the cloud of coercion being present.
I am completely against the death penalty, in all circumstances.
I still believe that the allegations against China made here are orders of magnitude worse than "just" harvesting organs from executed donors. That would be mainly a violation of the victims post-mortem rights or dignity.
The alleged practice involves doctors and hospitals cooperating in the preparation and execution of the death penalty. That is a fundamental violation of medical ethics. In the US, doctors are forbidden to participate in executions.
And apparently at least the timing of the executions in China, if not even the decision whether to execute a prisoner or not, seems to be affected by the demand for organs.
It's always hard to make a judgement about what wrong is worse, but I'd say here we have a clear "winner".
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#198What worried me is that actually someone out there believe in this shit.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It harvests tens of thousands of organs from political prisoners. Is this actually proven? > It holds hundreds of thousands of minorities in concentration camps in Xinjiang. KSA outright levels cities with minorities in them, so am not sure how they're better. > repression, censorship, and extralegal assassinations are all in a day's work for the PRC As far as I know, China does not repress women anywhere near the…
This very article is about the organ harvesting. What it amounts to is that it's impossible for China's number of listed donors to have supplied all the organs necessary for the recorded number of transplants, by a substantial amount. The PRC could easily dismiss this by providing transparency into its organ donor procurement system, but it takes a hard line on limiting all information about it. Numerous eyewitness a…