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Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

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Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#81
post #16

The percentage of drivers who think it's safe to nap is small but nonetheless frightening. What are these people thinking?

They are thinking the same thing as people who drive drunk. People can be idiots. You have to actively disable safety measures in order to get the car to drive for any kind of extended period without applying force to the wheel. Anyone caught doing this intentionally should be cited for impaired driving same as a DUI. Then there are the people who legitimately fall asleep at the wheel and AutoPilot saves their lives,…

> They are thinking the same thing as people who drive drunk.

They're worse. People who drive drunk don't necessarily make a fully conscious decision to do that. Their judgement is already impaired.

But if they think that sleeping with autopilot on is reasonable, that's 100% on them. It's something they decided ahead of time.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're helping to lay the ground work for safer roads by forcing the industry to integrate more and more automated safety systems. They focus more on driver-aid systems that encourage not paying attention. Their automated safety systems aren't anything special compared to what most manufactures offer.

> Their automated safety systems aren't anything special compared to what most manufactures offer. When I'm trying to figure out which of two really vocal, opposed camps might be more right on some issue, I look for the really hyperbolic statements that are easily refuted but still repeated. 2016: A Tesla's Forward Collision Warning System warns the driver about an impending collision he can't even see yet and starts…

You'll find that indeed most manufacturers offer AEB, forward and rear collision avoidance, many of them offering side collision detection. Subaru, Volvo, Toyota, Audi, Mercedes, for ones I know for a fact. I'm more unsure as to why you think other manufacturers don't do these things.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#83
post #75

"Cruise Control" doesn't mean I can ignore the ~3200lbs of sports car I drive, just like "Tesla Autopilot" doesn't mean drivers can ignore the ~5000lbs of battery under them. As an American who spends considerable time driving cars in various performance events (even some fun wheel to wheel endurance stuff) I think I can safely estimate at least ~25% of drivers on the road today, probably shouldn't be. Tesla is makin…

>Tesla is making progress, and regardless of whether they survive these various courts of public opinion, they're helping to lay the ground work for safer roads by forcing the industry to integrate more and more automated safety systems. They're also wilfully misrepresenting the quality and safety of their technology to their customers, presenting intentionally misleading statistics to the media about it, and attempt…

If you go to certain sub-Reddits or other similar forums, you will see that there is a tremendous amount of misinformation associated with Tesla, Tesla Auto Pilot, driver assist technology and Full Self Driving technology in general. I largely blame the absurdly irresponsible misinformation campaign spearheaded by Tesla and Elon personally. It's awful to get the public's understand of a nascent and potential game changing technology to start off on such a terrible note.

Some of the most common mis-conceptions I've seen include:

1. Level 5 Full Self Driving tech is right around the corner, with government regulation being the biggest show stopper. Elon promised "feature complete" of FSD by end of this year, and claims that within 6-12 months of that full level 5 self driving will be ready to ship to consumers.

2. Tesla is unique in their usage of computer vision in their FSD stack, and the rest of the industry only uses LIDAR. In reality almost everything Tesla does Waymo and others also do and very likely do it better, and on top of that they use LIDAR.

3. Since companies like Waymo employs pre-mapping and LIDAR, what they are building is a completely hardcoded solution to driving with very low degree of versatility and flexibility. I've seen Tesla fan suggesting that Waymo handles Stop Signs by hard coding the location of each stop sign in the map.

4. Because Auto Pilot, a level 2 driver assist system is being shipped in production cars and are racking up millions of miles, Tesla does not need any actual comprehensive testing of their FSD stack. I've seen many Tesla fans arguing this is why Tesla has done more test and gathers more "data" than companies like Waymo, when in reality Tesla's FSD system has seen almost ZERO actual testing anywhere, and puts them far behind competitors.

5. OTA updates makes Auto Pilot safer than competitors. In reality OTA very often enables less stringent QA and less rigorous regression testing. The Mountain View driver who was killed at the 85/101 on-ramp was the result of a terrible AP regression that failed to handle concrete barriers that it used to handle.

6. Auto Pilot is already safer than human driver because it has lower accidents/mile than the national average. This one is especially egregious since Tesla used active AP safety data compared against all motor vehicle accident data, which includes motorcycles and cars of all ages, driven by drivers of all ages, employing safety techs (or lack there of) of all levels, driving in all conditions. Where as active AP data is gathered by Tesla cars that's newer than 5 years old, driven by older, wealthier drivers, employs crucial safety tech such as automatic emergency braking, and only engaged during favorable conditions (mostly highway driving, clear weather, etc). When compared against data from cars with AEB, Auto Pilot has very comparative safety record.

Elon always had a tendency to be fast and loose with facts/predictions/promises, and usually I view them as entertaining at best and disappointing at worst, but with safety critical features like this what he's doing makes me feel borderline angry. A few major mistakes will set back the industry by years and as of now, Tesla is literally the only driver assist system that has a fatality count. I honestly cannot understand how any engineers with good conscious can still work on AP/FSD at Tesla and sleep well at night.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're helping to lay the ground work for safer roads by forcing the industry to integrate more and more automated safety systems. They focus more on driver-aid systems that encourage not paying attention. Their automated safety systems aren't anything special compared to what most manufactures offer.

I disagree. Which other vehicles on the road actively steer your vehicle away from an imminent collision when it's safe to do so? Tesla's blind spot monitoring doesn't just detect what's in your blind spot, like other vehicles, it also detects whether a vehicle is slowing down or accelerating into the "blind spot" adjacent to your vehicle. Their autopilot or automated emergency braking doesn't just brake when a vehic…

Uhh, my Audi did exactly that. Blind spot monitoring was adaptive to the speed differential. My current car uses brake light detection to assist with braking. These are not features unique to Tesla.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#85

"Survey participants were asked questions including whether they thought it was safe to take their hands off the steering wheel" I think this is misleading, Autopilot never told it's safe enough to let hands off the steering wheel. To this extend of course there is no difference than other solutions.

Tesla itself used to only mandate that you touched the steering wheel every quarter hour.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#86
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think pilots sleep while the passenger jet you're riding in is on 'autopilot'?

Yes, absolutely [1]. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-24296544

They don't "sleep" as in regularly take planned naps due to trust in autopilot. They fall asleep, causing danger to passengers. Same thing happens on the road to drivers without autopilot - they just rarely get to talk about it afterwards.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#87
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the problem is the human attention span? Cars without any always-on computer aids such as automatic braking must be really dangerous then.

Driving a car is absolutely the most dangerous activity most people regularly participate in. I don't think you're saying anything controversial there.

Right so any time a computer can take over is a good thing because computers don’t get bored.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#88
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla is making progress, and regardless of whether they survive these various courts of public opinion, they're helping to lay the ground work for safer roads by forcing the industry to integrate more and more automated safety systems. They're also wilfully misrepresenting the quality and safety of their technology to their customers, presenting intentionally misleading statistics to the media about it, and attempt…

If you go to certain sub-Reddits or other similar forums, you will see that there is a tremendous amount of misinformation associated with Tesla, Tesla Auto Pilot, driver assist technology and Full Self Driving technology in general. I largely blame the absurdly irresponsible misinformation campaign spearheaded by Tesla and Elon personally. It's awful to get the public's understand of a nascent and potential game cha…

While you make some interesting points, you are playing fast and loose with the difference between predictions and promises.

Elon says he thinks development cars will have FSD by the end of the year and you take it as a "promise" that they will have it and a "claim" that it will then be in production cars shortly thereafter.

He couched his predictions with a lot of caveats that you are ignoring while you engage in disingenuously calling the predictions "promises" and "claims."

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#90

So I take it it's NOT okay to take your hands off the wheel with Tesla Autopilot? I am not familiar with the technology. The Tesla page on it ( https://www.tesla.com/autopilot ) takes a while to get to describing what it does , but then says, among other things: > Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically within its lane. And: > With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing po…

It's OK but they have to tell you not to.
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