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In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

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Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#81

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

derefr wrote: post #77
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. A huge chunk of the world used to not let people vote on their governance, or basically gave no rights to women. Turns out that declaring war against England solved part of that, and other actions have made huge headway around the world. The civil rights act had huge effects, despite it being a big problem in many other places.

"A huge chunk of the world" and "literally every human being throughout history" are very different things. Like I said, a problem is potentially solvable politically if you have at least one constructive proof of people not doing that. If you don't, though, then it's likely one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_universal . If, for some reason, you thought that—to use a random example from the list— pe…

Yes, cultural universals exist, but in the interest of staying on topic, you'll notice a distinct difference between e.g. people having names, and things on zanny's list or cultures that work overtime too much.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#82

Post by hartator »

Kluny wrote: post #34

> In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. This shit is toxic masculinity in action – the part that affects men. Women protest this kind of thing because if they have children they need to go home to, then they are unable to compete on hours with men who can stay late and rely on their wives. But men deserve time with their famili…

> This shit is toxic masculinity in action

As the same time, you've just assumed the CTO was a man.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#83

Post by GuiA »

reymus wrote: post #63
justaguyhere wrote: post #29

In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. In many places I worked in the US, it is somewhat of a badge of honor to spend long hours at work (how many of those are actually productive, is a different story). And these aren't even startups. This can't continue - an entire generation of people have been brainwashed that hard work = go…

> In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. In both the places I've worked, it's a common joke anyone says when somebody leaves. everybody laughs and nobody gets offended. It doesn't mean anything.

That’s a very toxic attitude to have, especially as a manager. You don’t know that “nobody gets offended”. All you know is that “no one chose to express their discomfort”, a very different thing.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#84

Post by CapricornNoble »

40acres wrote: post #13

Anyone with expertise care to chime in regarding possible causes? I recently finished a WWII documentary and the first few installments of Hardcore History's look into Imperial Japan. The Japanese seem like an "intense" (for lack of a better word) culture, which seems like it can be a pro or a con depending on what that "intensity" is targeted towards.

I always like to say that Japan is basically a feudal militaristic society that just shifted their focus of effort from warfare to business. Japanese introductions and pleasantries are in some ways eerily similar with Marine Corps "customs & courtesies". There was a Youtube documentary I watched where they pointed out that most of the central bankers and other high-ranking economic staff, post-war, were still hardcore fascists. So Japan keeping the structure that had been imposed by centuries of rule under a warrior caste should be less surprising.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#85

Post by chris11 »

justaguyhere wrote: post #29

In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. In many places I worked in the US, it is somewhat of a badge of honor to spend long hours at work (how many of those are actually productive, is a different story). And these aren't even startups. This can't continue - an entire generation of people have been brainwashed that hard work = go…

> IMHO, the only reasons to work long hours are - real emergencies (like the kind doctors and cops deal with, not the kind when some photo sharing app goes down for 15 mins)

Even that doesn't make tech look great. Hours are bad for most doctors, but it seems like emergency medicine handles it a lot better. Doing some brief reading it looks like doctors can work 40 hours a week or under in the ER if they want to, and this is shift work.

The poll here tops out at 45hrs/week https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-many-hours-are-...

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#86

Post by fzeroracer »

maxxxxx wrote: post #71
Kluny wrote: post #34

> In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. This shit is toxic masculinity in action – the part that affects men. Women protest this kind of thing because if they have children they need to go home to, then they are unable to compete on hours with men who can stay late and rely on their wives. But men deserve time with their famili…

"toxic masculinity " Why make this a thing about gender? Abusers can be found in all genders. Making this about males is counterproductive.

Someone perpetuating toxic masculinity has little to do with the persons gender. It has to do with the cultural norms that they're choosing to enforce that result in a net negative.

A woman calling a man 'gay' because they have long hair is just as guilty of perpetuating toxic masculinity, for example. This has nothing to do with blaming men, it has to do with harmful stereotypes that hurt everyone.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#87

Post by maxxxxx »

fzeroracer wrote: post #86
maxxxxx wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"toxic masculinity " Why make this a thing about gender? Abusers can be found in all genders. Making this about males is counterproductive.

Someone perpetuating toxic masculinity has little to do with the persons gender. It has to do with the cultural norms that they're choosing to enforce that result in a net negative. A woman calling a man 'gay' because they have long hair is just as guilty of perpetuating toxic masculinity, for example. This has nothing to do with blaming men, it has to do with harmful stereotypes that hurt everyone.

Then don't call it "masculinity" and be more specific. Anything related to "masculinity" will be connected to males.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#88

Post by fzeroracer »

maxxxxx wrote: post #87
fzeroracer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone perpetuating toxic masculinity has little to do with the persons gender. It has to do with the cultural norms that they're choosing to enforce that result in a net negative. A woman calling a man 'gay' because they have long hair is just as guilty of perpetuating toxic masculinity, for example. This has nothing to do with blaming men, it has to do with harmful stereotypes that hurt everyone.

Then don't call it "masculinity" and be more specific. Anything related to "masculinity" will be connected to males.

Yes, that's the point? It's a well defined term.

Toxic masculinity is connected to the masculine roles society forces on men and women. I'm not sure what else you'd call it, because the entire point is that it has everything to do with masculinity. Hence, toxic masculinity.

But again, anyone can perpetuate it.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#89

Post by rubber_duck »

GuiA wrote: post #83
reymus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. In both the places I've worked, it's a common joke anyone says when somebody leaves. everybody laughs and nobody gets offended. It doesn't mean anything.

That’s a very toxic attitude to have, especially as a manager. You don’t know that “nobody gets offended”. All you know is that “no one chose to express their discomfort”, a very different thing.

It's pretty easy to make sure nobody gets offended - you communicate (in a serious setting) that you value results over hours worked and you demonstrate this in practice. At that point irony and sarcasm is safe territory (appropriate or tasteful is another matter). Being afraid to joke about this because it could be missunderstood tells me you are failing at that which is far more important than worrying about what are potential interpretations of your jokes.

I would say this applies to any value.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#90

Post by reroute1 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #87
fzeroracer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone perpetuating toxic masculinity has little to do with the persons gender. It has to do with the cultural norms that they're choosing to enforce that result in a net negative. A woman calling a man 'gay' because they have long hair is just as guilty of perpetuating toxic masculinity, for example. This has nothing to do with blaming men, it has to do with harmful stereotypes that hurt everyone.

Then don't call it "masculinity" and be more specific. Anything related to "masculinity" will be connected to males.

I think the problem is there is only a focus on toxic masculinity and men see it everywhere. It stands to reason there can be just as much toxic femininity, but you don't hear about that ever... or not much talk about positive masculinity but surely that exists also
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