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In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

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71–80 of 192 posts

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#71
post #34

> In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. This shit is toxic masculinity in action – the part that affects men. Women protest this kind of thing because if they have children they need to go home to, then they are unable to compete on hours with men who can stay late and rely on their wives. But men deserve time with their famili…

"toxic masculinity "

Why make this a thing about gender? Abusers can be found in all genders. Making this about males is counterproductive.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#72
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any way you could just make it physiologically untenable for anyone to stay in your office past 5PM? Right around 6PM at my apartment, the downstairs tenants light up with the most awful, stanky skunk-weed. You literally cannot keep the windows open; and yet, in the middle of summer and no central AC, you can't afford to be there with them closed, either. So, in effect, my neighbour forces me to ensure I'm n…

Maybe just turn the lights and power to the router and switched off with a timer at 5pm?

I have worked in Liberia (in fact, I just returned from a four month stay today) and since the public power company is so untrustworthy, NGOs and offices usually run their own power off diesel generators. It's common the generators are shut down at 5:30 or 6. Works out pretty well.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#73
post #13

Anyone with expertise care to chime in regarding possible causes? I recently finished a WWII documentary and the first few installments of Hardcore History's look into Imperial Japan. The Japanese seem like an "intense" (for lack of a better word) culture, which seems like it can be a pro or a con depending on what that "intensity" is targeted towards.

Post WWII, Japan was in the position of "work like crazy so that we don't all starve". So their culture became "work like crazy". That position ended perhaps by 1970, but the culture survived.

There may also be other factors, but I think this is one.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#74
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to let your employer feel that pain Unless you're hourly.

Well the idea of time and a half is that overtime should be painful to the employer. It probably isn't though or at least is budgeted for.

When overtime starts getting budgeted the employer doesn't care so much. Usually they've done the math on if hiring people (with benefits, etc) is better than spreading the hours out as overtime.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#75

I once heard it said that employee overtime was like morphine for employers, because it masks the pain of organizational dysfunction. It's important to let your employer feel that pain so that they can become aware of what is wrong and fix it.

"I once heard it said that employee overtime was like morphine for employers, because it masks the pain of organizational dysfunction. It's important to let your employer feel that pain so that they can become aware of what is wrong and fix it. "

One of my jobs in Germany had a strict 35 hour week. No overtime allowed unless paid 2x and even that was very difficult to do. Management was definitely much more decisive and we worked most of the 35 hours. With my current employer I am pretty sure I am working less productive hours but I am in the office more. Meetings, meetings, conference calls, more meetings and no clear decisions.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#76

> We have our own culturally ingrained things in America that I'd like to change as well, and that are changing, but so slowly. How do you implement change? Out of curiosity, what would you like to change in the US?

The attitude towards taking time off, frankly. I don’t mind busting my ass at work, it’s fun, but the looks you get when you take more than a week or two of vacation at a time :-/

Where I work (Denmark); it's more the looks you get if you only take one or two weeks off or if you constantly stay in the office past 7hrs.

Over working is not healthy and you are not productive anyway. Work (at most) the 37.5hrs/week (maybe 40 if there's a crunch) you are paid for and take your 6 weeks of yearly vacation that you are entitled to (plus holidays) - is what I'd recommend and what my manager pushes. I think that's a good thing.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#77
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes it a likely human-cultural universal problem that can't be fixed at the level of national politics (but rather requires something like transhuman genetic engineering to change the way our minds work, or something.) Better to focus on the problems that we have at least one constructive proof of being something other than an irreducible part of the "human 1.0" experience.

Bullshit. A huge chunk of the world used to not let people vote on their governance, or basically gave no rights to women. Turns out that declaring war against England solved part of that, and other actions have made huge headway around the world. The civil rights act had huge effects, despite it being a big problem in many other places.

"A huge chunk of the world" and "literally every human being throughout history" are very different things. Like I said, a problem is potentially solvable politically if you have at least one constructive proof of people not doing that. If you don't, though, then it's likely one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_universal.

If, for some reason, you thought that—to use a random example from the list—people having names was a bad thing, would you try to use politics to get people to stop naming their children? No; that'd be insane. People aren't going to give up doing that as long as they're still human beings in any sense we recognize. Even if you outlaw it, they'll still do it; it'll just be a secret.

Same goes for many good things, but also for many bad things. You'll never be able to erase the human concept of e.g. people having things that are more "theirs" than someone else's (even in a communist totalitarian regime) or sexual jealousy (even if there's a central educational authority raising everyone polyamorous), or arbitrary etiquette fads (even in the context of a concrete replacement for them, like a military code of conduct) or people valuing kin over strangers (even if Effective Altruism propaganda were to be broadcast from loudspeakers on every corner.) You can't make a world without these things in them, without making a world without humans as we know them in them.

There are problems amenable to politics. Maybe most problems. But some problems just... aren't. (These problematic aspects of humanity may be amenable to other solutions—potentially many! It's just that a political solution requires the majority of people to want it; and, by the fact that these are universals, the majority of humans will never want them gone.)

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#78
post #63

In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. In many places I worked in the US, it is somewhat of a badge of honor to spend long hours at work (how many of those are actually productive, is a different story). And these aren't even startups. This can't continue - an entire generation of people have been brainwashed that hard work = go…

> In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. In both the places I've worked, it's a common joke anyone says when somebody leaves. everybody laughs and nobody gets offended. It doesn't mean anything.

it is toxic though, repear a (lie) joke enough time and becomes the truth

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#79

In a place I worked, if someone left at 5:30 pm, the CTO used to joke "half day today?", even though the person came in at 9 am. In many places I worked in the US, it is somewhat of a badge of honor to spend long hours at work (how many of those are actually productive, is a different story). And these aren't even startups. This can't continue - an entire generation of people have been brainwashed that hard work = go…

I read the book “Why we sleep” and they present some statistics from studies.

One being that lack of quality sleep from working such long hours which can negatively impact sleep and has massive economic costs due to workspace accidents, errors and poor judgement.

From memory, one statistic showed Japan was losing the most money by far.

I highly recommend the book for those interested in improving your life.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have much to do with being male- that's the point! It has to do with the roles men are expected to play in society, and how "being a man" is culturally defined. Of course men have children too! Again, that's the point- to a significant degree, the "normal" family- where culture defines what's "normal"- consists of a man who works and focuses on his career, and a woman who takes care of the kids. So when th…

Except this isn't an area where there is toxicity related to gender roles. Women work as much as men do, and this CTO has an attitude that treats everyone equally. Where does the toxic masculinity enter this scenario? "a male employee who leaves "early" v.s. a female employee who did the same" Is there a real problem for men leaving the same time as women? I've never encountered this at any job ever.

Right, this is why it seemed like an overreach to me. I guess you could say it's also related to men generally being encouraged to be more competitive- which might make them overwork to seem more committed- but that's an effect that's so indirect it's hard to pin down.
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