Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

sociable.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 89 posts

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#31

Post by tomschlick »

undersuit wrote: post #15
tomschlick wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? The average family of 4 on Snap benefits receives $465/mo for food. If you can't buy groceries on that then you're doing something wrong.

Please answer the question. If you can't live on $1000 a month from the federal government I think you're doing something wrong.

Right now we have multiple federal programs (Welfare, SNAP, Disability, etc). Most of these UBI programs get rid of those in favor a monthly cash payment...

So how are you disagreeing with me that people mismanaging money would result in them asking for more? And eventually someone would start adding those programs back costing us even more...

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#32

Post by 40acres »

UBI is not politically feasible in America, realistically I can only see it working in a very homogeneous country (religious, ethnic, language, etc.).

Those who want UBI in America should redirect their focus on an expansion of the Earned Income and Child Tax Credits. I think eliminating the phase in period of EITC and increasing the benefits (by absorbing other forms of welfare) is the way to go.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#33

Post by tomschlick »

viklove wrote: post #28
tomschlick wrote: post #5

Nobody can ever answer the question of "What happens when someone blows their UBI and cant afford to eat?" Will we let them starve? You'd almost have to from the government side of things. How about 5 years after when someone introduces another entitlement program to help single mothers/seniors/etc and then criticizes everyone else as heartless for not supporting it? Will we just end up where we are now with even mor…

> Yeah that says it all right there. This guy feels entitled to someone else's money. Yeah, and that guy is Bezos (and you, it seems). Where did that $150 billion come from? Are you really suggesting one man created it?

> Are you really suggesting one man created it?

No of course not. The company he built from the ground up did.

Those workers are paid as per their employment contract. That's it. That doesn't give them rights to take pieces of ownership in that company.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#34

Post by tomschlick »

umadon wrote: post #22
tomschlick wrote: post #5

Nobody can ever answer the question of "What happens when someone blows their UBI and cant afford to eat?" Will we let them starve? You'd almost have to from the government side of things. How about 5 years after when someone introduces another entitlement program to help single mothers/seniors/etc and then criticizes everyone else as heartless for not supporting it? Will we just end up where we are now with even mor…

But where does that value come from? Did Bezos create it?

Yes. He created Amazon and employed the people who helped to build it bigger. Those people are/were paid as a part of their employment and that's all they are entitled to as per their contracts.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#35

Post by undersuit »

tomschlick wrote: post #31
undersuit wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please answer the question. If you can't live on $1000 a month from the federal government I think you're doing something wrong.

Right now we have multiple federal programs (Welfare, SNAP, Disability, etc). Most of these UBI programs get rid of those in favor a monthly cash payment... So how are you disagreeing with me that people mismanaging money would result in them asking for more? And eventually someone would start adding those programs back costing us even more...

If we have all these federal programs now, why are there people that are food insecure in the United States now?

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#36

Post by mathgladiator »

tomschlick wrote: post #33
viklove wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah that says it all right there. This guy feels entitled to someone else's money. Yeah, and that guy is Bezos (and you, it seems). Where did that $150 billion come from? Are you really suggesting one man created it?

> Are you really suggesting one man created it? No of course not. The company he built from the ground up did. Those workers are paid as per their employment contract. That's it. That doesn't give them rights to take pieces of ownership in that company.

The way we value ownership may be something to think about. I'm very capitalistic, but I'm not happy. I'm reading "tribe: homecomings and belonging" (subtitle paraphrased due to poor memory).

I am a millionaire and I am thinking about how to use it to build a community, and while I dont think we should use force to take wealth, I did believe we need a new leadership class to inspire and influence how ownership is shared.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#37

Post by tomschlick »

undersuit wrote: post #35
tomschlick wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now we have multiple federal programs (Welfare, SNAP, Disability, etc). Most of these UBI programs get rid of those in favor a monthly cash payment... So how are you disagreeing with me that people mismanaging money would result in them asking for more? And eventually someone would start adding those programs back costing us even more...

If we have all these federal programs now, why are there people that are food insecure in the United States now?

There will always be people who either fall through the cracks or just simply people who are bad at managing their resources. I don't know if there is any real solution to fix that.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#38

Post by magnamerc »

tomschlick wrote: post #33
viklove wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah that says it all right there. This guy feels entitled to someone else's money. Yeah, and that guy is Bezos (and you, it seems). Where did that $150 billion come from? Are you really suggesting one man created it?

> Are you really suggesting one man created it? No of course not. The company he built from the ground up did. Those workers are paid as per their employment contract. That's it. That doesn't give them rights to take pieces of ownership in that company.

At what point do people take ownership? What if governments as we know them today are replaced by trillion dollar AI/robotics corporations that litteraly own the means of production? We'll all get very cheap goods and services, but at what cost? You're now beholden to a megacorp that provides food, housing, entertainment, transportation, and employment. Sounds pretty dystopian to me.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#39

Post by ffrancis »

Perhaps this thinking on UBI isn't bulletproof, but when you recognise the distribution of wealth is so concentrated, at the very least this is a great beginning to start thinking outside of the box in terms of how we approach Human Rights.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#40

Post by undersuit »

tomschlick wrote: post #37
undersuit wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we have all these federal programs now, why are there people that are food insecure in the United States now?

There will always be people who either fall through the cracks or just simply people who are bad at managing their resources. I don't know if there is any real solution to fix that.

Then why would you attack UBI over this issue?
Post reply on HN