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Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

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Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#471

Post by vageli »

shujito wrote: post #463
Miner49er wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook won't do anything to help these moderaters unless the cost of the negative PR exceeds the cost of doing something. Engineers at FB could help achieve this by causing agitation, for sure. Maybe the best solution is for the moderaters to unionize.

...which it's unlikely to happen because of the NDA's they have to sign. If there's something wrong with this reasoning, please elaborate.

> ...which it's unlikely to happen because of the NDA's they have to sign.

> If there's something wrong with this reasoning, please elaborate.

I would be utterly surprised if an NDA could be used to prevent an employee from exercising their right to organize (in the US at least). Just because you sign something does not make it legally enforceable.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#472

Post by vageli »

debacle wrote: post #185
sandworm101 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If it's a shit job that isn't worth the pay, people won't do it. That assumes perfect knowledge. As mentioned in the article, these moderators often do not understand what they are getting into until long after they have committed to the job. Once you have quit a previous job, moved, setup your new life, only then do you realize your new "brand consultant" job means watching kittens die all day. Jobs like this als…

Nobody moves for $30k a year.

> Nobody moves for $30k a year.

I personally know people who have moved for half that amount.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#473

Post by vageli »

jumbopapa wrote: post #216
sandworm101 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. Ever seen a migrant camp? Ever talked to a seasonal farm laborer? People will literally walk across continents for 30k/years. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Soldier/Salary

Sounds like $30k is an improvement in their lives then, so is it really "too little"?

> Sounds like $30k is an improvement in their lives then, so is it really "too little"?

Being put in prison is an improvement for many individuals in so far as they are guaranteed three square meals and a warm place to lay their head. Would you seriously argue that that's an improvement that is worth the cost to the individual?

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#474

Post by ihm »

Miner49er wrote: post #121
cldellow wrote: post #12

This was a valuable article to read. Facebook is enormously valuable. They made something like $15B in net income in the last four quarters. Content moderators are a necessary condition for that profit. If kiddie porn, gore and animal cruelty flooded the network, it would cease to be a destination visited by people that advertisers will pay to reach. And yet, there are two sets of entry-level knowledge workers at Fac…

Facebook won't do anything to help these moderaters unless the cost of the negative PR exceeds the cost of doing something. Engineers at FB could help achieve this by causing agitation, for sure. Maybe the best solution is for the moderaters to unionize.

The union would be stronger if it included the engineers too, who have more leverage.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#475

Post by chillwaves »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #449
_bxg1 wrote: post #129

I think the most pertinent question is why don't they quit ? It says a great deal about how broken the United States' job market and social safety net are. If minimum wage were $15, they could find another job that paid their basic living expenses. If health care weren't left up to your employer, they wouldn't be out of luck while looking for a different job. If there were any alternative , they wouldn't stay in this…

> If minimum wage were $15 ... then low-skilled candidates would NOT be able to find any job at all, because if low skilled candidate's expertise does not support $15/hour salary, and employers who could, potentially, pay less (e.g. $10/hour) are legally prohibited from employing people at that lower rate -- then there are no other jobs available to that low skilled candidate at all. Which means forced and hopeless u…

Yes, and if we got rid of the minimum wage just think of all the wonderful job opportunities that would abound! Why, if you only pay people $1/hr, you can employ 7x as many people vs the current min. wage! It's simple economics.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#476

Post by SomeOldThrow »

bena wrote: post #229
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they really should be in this case. This is not a normal job.

The real solution is that they present the reality of the job and let the candidate make the decision to proceed or not. That way the company presented the job as is. And if the candidate takes the job, they own some of the responsibility for the consequences.

I can certainly agree with that.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#477

Post by toss1 »

iBasher wrote: post #450
toss1 wrote: post #140

>> "Speagle vividly recalls the first video he saw in his new assignment. Two teenagers spot an iguana on the ground, and one picks it up by the tail. A third teenager films what happens next: the teen holding the iguana begins smashing it onto the street. “They beat the living shit out of this thing,” Speagle told me, as tears welled up in his eyes. “The iguana was screaming and crying. And they didn’t stop until th…

After trying to find the video I've found that iguanas are an invasive species in Florida and blunt force trauma to the head is the legal "humane" way to kill the invasive species. Not sure if that's what's going on in the video, and if it took multiple swings it certainly wasn't done correctly but maybe look into it before assuming things.

There are plenty of invasive species that I'm 100% in support of eradicating from their invaded territories. This is no justification for cruelty of any kind, nor promoting cruelty, which this video and Facebook does by leaving it posted. No assumptions needed.

Assume that you are 100% correct, the species is undesirable invasive and that is the proper procedure.

Repeatedly bashing their head while the creature is obviously screaming in pain is blatant cruelty. Not only do all the previously stated reasons to pull the video & report it to the police still stand, you provide yet another reason to pull it -- it shows a horribly bad example of how to do it, providing negative instruction and promoting bad & cruel technique.

Moreover, based on this and numerous other articles and events (e.g., leaving posted a doctored video defaming the person 3rd in line for the US Presicency), this sort of behavior is fully consistent with Facebook's modus operandi.

Simply, FB are happy to poison society for profit, and disingenuously justify it in the name of 'free discourse' and by claiming to have no editorial control.

We must at the very least hold them responsible for their content.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#478

Post by 50656E6973 »

hvs wrote: post #249
doctorRetro wrote: post #225

“I think Facebook needs to shut down." As I've spent the last few years pissing away absurd amounts of time on the platform, gotten in countless fruitless arguments, and seen the truly vile and toxic elements of my communities exposed and worn like a badge, this is an idea I've been thinking an awful lot about. After reading this article, I've never been more certain of that statement.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Pogo_-_Earth_... Shutting down FB will just create this problem in the next popular social media platform. This is a problem that needs to be solved, and shutting companies down won't do it.

That's like saying there's no point in putting out house fires, because there's always going to be somewhere else that catches on fire.

When a social gathering (whether its a party at a club or a riot in the streets) exceeds capacity and becomes dangerous, destructive, and out of control the police shut it down for the good of public safety.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#479

Post by nonwifehaver3 »

I haven't used Facebook since 2012 so maybe I'm missing something. When someone posts a video of them torturing a dog under their own name, or some other sick thing, does that not cause some sort of problem with their friends and local community? Many would permanently block and ostracize an acquaintance for such a thing. Why does nobody call the police on someone like that, especially when they know their work/address/etc in real life?

I guess I don't understand the key change in the medium or the culture that requires Facebook's ponderous rule tome and 10000 anonymous content moderators in Manila or Phoenix. Is this just about the risk of some corporate ad being next to some undesired content for a few page views?

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#480

Post by pravda »

cldellow wrote: post #399
wrongdonf wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says right in the article that the content moderators have full medical benefits

Sorry, yes, I could have expanded on that. You're right, they provide health benefits, in theory. My experience with the US health care system is that there is a wide gulf in health benefits. When I worked for Microsoft in the late 2000s(as an employee, not as "dash trash", as contractors were called), I paid some very small premium like $10-20/month for a plan with 0 deductible, 0 copay, and pretty much every doctor…

>I understand that that was considered quite good insurance and that most people in the USA don't get that level of care, much less at that price.

AFAIK, Microsoft 'self-insures', in the sense that they simply pay the medical bills for their employees.

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