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World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

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Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label. These guys will put lead in children's toys but would never be so unscrupulous as to put a fake label on the product? Or lie to obtain certification?

That's a criticism of the supply chain and enforcement, not the certification itself. I think most people would agree that a promise without verification is no real promise.

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Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#62
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title clearly says 'World's top bicycle maker says'. It's an opinion.

Yeah, not sure about how they're measuring. By market cap, Shimano is about four and a half times larger. P/E is very close between the two; Giant's PY return is about 77 times better than Shimano's.

Shimano makes bicycle parts, not bicycles. Giant sells bicycles, and some of them come with Shimano parts.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#63
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true. In the EU, there are lots of tags that guarantee product safety. CE marks (for electronics), OEKO-TEX (safe textiles), GOTS (organic textiles), etc. The US has some equivalent ones I am less familiar with. In fact, both OEKO-TEX and GOTS are global standards. Some Xiaomi products have not been imported to EU because they failed to obtain CE marks. And you'd never encounter a product that sme…

>And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label. These guys will put lead in children's toys but would never be so unscrupulous as to put a fake label on the product? Or lie to obtain certification?

I don't know about manufacturing. But for food products people get prosecuted all the time by trading standards.

My friend who works for them has a lot of interesting stories to tell. One story, she visited a local pub and asked for a dairy free ploughman's, the waiter asked if she would like butter on her bread. My friend waited for it to be added, then she put the whole meal, plate and all into a plastic bag and took it away for analysis. The pub got fined and another visit from trading standards.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#64
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

When the internet was young and I was wide eyed optimistic I thought reviews and ratings would solve this problem. It didn't. Then amazon came along and promised a similar panacea, user ratings... but again it didn't quite happen. I feel twitter suffers the same problems. Who is genuine? Who has unbiased knowledge? Who can tell me the truth about a product? Can I know your credentials online without knowing your name…

How exactly would "blockchain" contribute anything to this solution?

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label. These guys will put lead in children's toys but would never be so unscrupulous as to put a fake label on the product? Or lie to obtain certification?

That's a criticism of the supply chain and enforcement, not the certification itself. I think most people would agree that a promise without verification is no real promise.

China executed people responsible for adding an industrial chemical to baby formula [1]. Without debating the merits of capital punishment, I think the issue is the lack of consistency in supple chain management. The only model I could compare to would be Costco, who is pretty good at curating products customers will like (and the quality is usually good IMHO). Trust sells, if you find buyers who value trust.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/24/china-executes...

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#66
Which parts of a better quality Giant bike are made in China, anyway?

Maybe they hare having the Giant-branded frames made in China? (I'd be wary of this stuff, if true; a crappy frame can break and kill you.) Or perhaps tires. Kenda tires (Taiwan brand) are likely made in China.

Nothing that you actually hang onto a frame to make a bike that is worth a damn comes from China: cassettes, rings, cranks, hubs, bottom brackets, shifter, brakes, rims, you name it. Only low-end garbage like SunRace cassettes, ProMax brakes and whatnot.

Bike all around the world are typically the same in this way. The "brand" part of the bike goes into the frame, and then what's on it is third-party components from familiar brands.

Some Shimano stuff is made in places like Indonesia. I don't recall having seen a "made in China" stamp on it, though.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#67
post #41
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that’s why we need regulatory bodies and, yes, tariffs which should factor all those additional costs: to environment, human rights, etc.

tariffs are a poor instrument for anything except raising the price of incoming goods so that your local industries can compete. And then you're still "picking the winners and losers" by selectively applying tariffs. It's a tax that hurts consumers and helps industries. There's a place for it in well measured smart economic policy, but in almost every case it's better to use a tax (like carbon tax) than a tariff. Ess…

A tarriff is just the name for a tax applied to imports. The reason and the scope and definition can be good or bad, just as with a tax.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#69
post #3

Perhaps if manufacturers will move out of PRC into nearby countries it won't have a large effect on prices for consumers and businesses in the US, but at the same time will force China to make structural changes in adherence with the rules of global trade and human rights. Too bad Trump has alienated traditional US allies - if major economies teamed up in this effort it would have been a much easier goal.

The "traditional US allies" have been the least help in this. The U.S. government hasn't done enough to support Taiwan in my opinion, but U.S. relations with India, Viet nam, Korea, etc. are exceptionally good. Among them surely is a replacement for some of the scale and industrial power the PRC is unwilling to provide on reasonable terms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-48650505

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#70
post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

>Sadly, it's all about price. This is the problem, but not how you are stating it. If CEO's didn't make 300x the lowest paid employee, and "shareholders didn't demand" exponential growth quarter after quarter, then the price to be 'Not made in China' would be reasonable. Fix these problems then the damages caused by seeking "cheapest possible AND cheaper" would be non-existant. *NB: I am a shareholder. I want my inve…

>If everybody stops being so greedy this is possible.

Problem is that we, as evolved creatures in a world of scarcity, are hoarders by... nature. Greed is just a morally misguided way of hoarding. So, waiting for people to stop being greedy is much more difficult than just making the right moral choices.

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